The HR guy then explained that if I sign this agreement, that it would be seen that I quit in lieu of termination.
When I asked why I was being fired, I was told "performance". I am an at-will employee, so I assume that can mean anything.
What are the chances of you picking up another job soon.
Will you still be able to draw unemployment compensation since you "quit"? They might fight you on that issue. It happened to my son, and it took him several months fighting it.
1. Were your previous performance evaluations all favorable? If not, it's a blessing to move on, although you should also cover your bases. If so, definitely have a labor lawyer look into it.
2. Do you have a Romney sticker on your car, a Romney sign on your house, or a Romney endorsement on your Facebook page? If so, be sure your lawyer is a conservative.
How did you do on your last performance review? Were you given any warnings between your review and being terminated?
Red flag there.....in Wisconsin, if you "quit" you are typically not eligible for unemployment compensation.
You have my sympathies....my hubby was just fired very unexpectedly in August. No severance and the jerk employer even fought unemployment. Thankfully he is working again.
Where in WI are you and what's your line of work?
If you resign, you will be ineligible for unemployment money.
That would very likely affect any unemployment compensation you might be eligible to receive. You need to talk with an attorney. I'm sorry to hear about your situation.
Get. A. Lawyer.
This is boilerplate HR bs ("performance" satisfies at-will) and if it's so gd important to them to make it look like you quit, then you're in a position to negotiate your departure. But only with a lawyer.
NO!!! do not sign.
I don't think quitters get unemployment
The HR guy then explained that if I sign this agreement, that it would be seen that I quit in lieu of termination.
I’m sorry this is happening to you. I’m not a lawyer, so I could be very wrong on this, but you need to find out if this would disqualify you from collecting unemployment should you need it at some point. Don’t sign anything until you speak to an attorney. It’s tempting to take whatever you think you can get up front, but this could hurt you in the long run. Be very careful.
I thought you were in a layoff. Being let go is different. The fact that they are saying, it will be seen the same as quiting, doesn’t sound right.
5 months is still a good severance package, but the advice above to check your unemployment benefits is very good advice. Are you giving up your unemployment benefits, if you sign? Check on how long you can collect unemployment. It’s not as long as it was in recent years.
Older workers are covered by different laws too. You might want to check into the law for older workers if you fit in that category. It covers work at will states too.
The advice to contact the labor department of your state is also a good idea. You can do that before you see an attorney.
Also you can file a discrimination complaint yourself or have an attorney do it. Just remember that 5 months is a lot of money to give up unless you can prove discrimination.
They want you to quit so they don’t have to pay unemployment. If they have really good cause to fire you, they’d probably do it. Sounds like you’re getting screwed.
They can’t withhold pay that you’ve earned. People that get fired don’t normally get severance.
They need to pay that up front or within the normal pay period, end of the month or whatever. Short of pilferage from the company or other criminal type malfeasance with which they would have to charge you, what you have worked for and earned is yours with or without a signed termination agreement.
If they still insist, get it in writing and take what they have written and the termination agreement to the lawyer. Give them a reasonable time frame on when you will get back to them with an answer. You need not even mention lawyers. Just tell them you need it in writing to discuss with your financial adviser.
Yeah, it is definitely better to have it on your record that you quit rather than that you were terminated. But good employers also understand that there are jag-off employers who terminate for unjustified reasons.
I was the victim of a purely political termination some years ago. After 10 years or so, nobody even asks about it anymore. The first job I got after that one actually told me the straightforward manner in which I handled it was a reason I got hired. I won't go into the details on the reason for the termination, but it was basically because I refused to cooperate with the political lynching of my boss at the time because he was an honorable and decent man.
Good luck in your next position. I know this can be a major blow, particularly in an economy like this. But you can get through it with the help of family, friends and a good network. Let us know how you make out.
Volunteer, sorry to hear this.
Repeating the general advice from other Freepers, labor laws very dramatically by state, legal consultation would seem appropriate if you don't understand it, never sign anything you don't understand.
If you quit, you would most likely not be able to collect unemployment and any other benefits that may be things commonly given to the company's other employees upon a layoff.
I wish you the best of luck.
Don't you think it's strange that they claim they're firing you for "performance," yet are offering you a 5 month severance package? I'm assuming the term "performance" means they think you weren't performing up to par. Did they provide you with a written statement listing the areas you weren't performing well?
If you were being “fired” because of performance (if I remember correctly were good except for a “typo”), there would be NO severance package. A severance package are for those being laid off (been there done that). The fact they are asking you to lie, forcing you to sign something that states you quit is a HUGE red flag.
Not only did I get my severance package, I was able to collect unemployment as well, at the same time.....although I worked for the big evil Citicorp.
They cannot withhold what you have already earned in regards to your salary. Vacation time is another matter. Depends on what you signed when you took the job (some are use it or lose it, especially in small business).
Get an attorney. Looks like they are “tying up loose ends” before obamacare kicks in.
Oh....and God Speed at finding a new job. Prayers up!
I've been on both sides of this equation and in NYS, at least, one cannot be fired for 'performance' unless the employer has met at leasttwo standards...
1) A record of your poor performance and the employer's efforts to correct it or at the ;east warn you about it must preceed any dismissal.
2) Every other employee of the company with the same job must also be shown to meet the standard that you failed to or else be fired too.
Absent these two conditions NYS Dept. of Labor will represent the employee in a wrongful discharge suit (as long as the employee is not a 'manager').
If they have either sat you down to discuss the performance issue prior to this and/or notified you in writing that your performance is an issue then there is little (probably nothing) you can do except take the money and wave good-bye.
“Quit in lieu of termination” means you cannot collect unemployment. And they can say that in future reference checks. “He quit because he did poorly and didn’t want to be fired.”
Get an attorney, and do not rely on the advice of someone who works for the company. And make copies of all documentation when you take it for review. If they refuse to let you take it to be reviewed by someone with legal experience, do not sign and state you will not sign without your legal representative present.
In light of this “quit instead of termination” business, you need to understand the ramifications upon your ability to claim unemployment. If you have the funds to do so get an attorney to review this and explain what it means.
On the other hand, unless terms of your employment contain a severance agreement you could be jeopardizing this.
You are an at will employee, so they don’t need a reason to terminate. However, all EEOC regulations and requirements still apply, at will or not. If you can plausibly claim unfair treatment due to age, race, sex, etc. then you could make things difficult for them.