Posted on 01/15/2012 5:01:45 PM PST by butterdezillion
The Congressional Research Service says that the individual states are in control of choosing their own presidential electors. So presidential eligibility issues are under the jurisdiction of state courts. But according to http://interstatedeposition.com/compellingout-of-statewitness.htm one state can't issue a subpoena for something in another state; they have to get somebody local in the other state to issue a subpoena and then that subpoena will be processed by the state where the records reside. If they refuse to issue or honor the subpoena then the other state is fresh out of luck.
We've already seen that Hawaii will ALWAYS hide the truth about Obama's records, even when it involves clearly breaking their laws and rules. They will never agree to any subpoena for their records.
IOW, the only way we will ever get access to those records for ballot purposes is if a bunch of state SOS's refuse to put Obama's name on the ballot unless and until those records are provided. If Obama wants to be on the ballots he needs to figure out a way to get the HDOH to provide the original birth certificate and the microfilm on which the original BC is filmed.
Is that what GA Judge Malihi said - that if Obama wants to be on the ballot those things have to be provided? Did Orly just copy pre-printed forms that had Malihi's signature, or did he actually require that those records be provided before Obama can be on the ballot?
Also, law enforcement people - is one state's law enforcement in the same predicament if they want a search warrant, subpoena, or deposition from something/somebody in Hawaii? Eric Holder is obviously never going to let federal law enforcement investigate Obama's many crimes including forgery and perjury. Are the feds the only people who COULD force Hawaii to submit to a criminal investigation?
Somebody help me understand exactly what boat we're in right now. As far as I can see from here, it seems like if both Hawaii and the US AG are willing to provide legal sanctuary for criminals the only recourse for the rest of us is impeachment of the US AG. Am I understanding this right? What protections do the rest of the states have against a rogue, criminal state that will hide criminals?
Thanks for any help anybody can give!
My fear is that Malihi will accept a forged document without even giving it scrutiny, and the issue will be deemed as decided.
We’ve been betrayed by the judges too many times, so when somebody does what seems to be right it’s like the mischievous kid smiling; you wonder what he’s up to. Kenny, you suggested right away that it could be a ploy, and I followed up by saying it could specifically be intended to pre-empt whatever the Cold Case Posse comes up with.
I’ve said since about last January that I thought Abercrombie made his gung-ho statements about showing Obama’s BC because they were planning to unveil a forged one. And I said at that time that with the HDOH caught in so much law-breaking, alteration of records, lying, etc the only way we will have a trustworthy understanding of what really happened is to cross-examine all the records - computer transaction logs, etc. If this judge doesn’t demand that, and/or the microfilms as well as other records that very strongly look to be tampered with, Obama will be able to argue that his eligibility and the genuineness of the documents have already been legally proven.
Kenny, I think you said that Obama never claimed that what he posted online was his actual birth certificate. So if the HDOH comes out with a good forgery Obama could still evade forgery charges on a technicality. It is not legally certified even if the vestiges of a “seal” are considered, and I don’t believe for a minute that what he posted online is what the HDOH has in their office. They have in their office a much better forgery, and a judge looking at it for a brief moment could easily be fooled - especially if he doesn’t already know all the crap surrounding Sunahara’s birth record and other crimes the HDOH has committed surrounding Obama’s records.
The GA judge can request the document from the driver, and then request confirmation from the state of NJ.
If the driver shows a judge a bogus license and the State cant provide the license for any reason, the Judge is obligated to put the driver in jail. A bogus BC should be a problem. If the Judge allows Obama to use bogus documents, than he opens the court to bogus documents for all. So he can't do that without risking his own reputation.
It all depends on what the Judge believes is sufficient for NBC. For the office of president of the USA, I would think releasing all documents held by HDOH would be required and reasonable. It's not asking too much. This shouldn't be a big deal. I am an NBC, and it's one lousey document. Not a big deal. For someone adopted it might be two or three.Not a big deal.
Right now, Obama is playing a game of chicken with all who oppose him. The race card will be dealt on this judge if he stops Obama. This is the reality.
Thanks bitt.
I am in exactly the same situation. I explained this to my child as well, that although she may make a fine mayor, governor, senator or congressman one day, the presidency at current is not an office to which she can legally aspire. When you place that much power in the hands of a single individual, you don't want to have any issues with regard to where loyalties are presumed to lie.
The people that I run into in everyday life that I explain it to intuitively understand the reasoning, and yes, the amount of conversation on the subject is increasing. The description of NBC in Minor vs Happersett makes eloquently simple sense to most people. This issue is NOT going away. Not by along shot. The foregoing doesn't take into consideration that we won't even get to learn the findings of Arpaio's Cold Case Posse until next month.
But before that happens, we have elections. Elections provide a chance for corrections.
Removing Obama will be justice. It should happen.
If Obama shows a fake and then the judge asks the HDOH to confirm it, they would confirm it. If the judge asks for more documentation to prove the authenticity, HI would tell them to stick it where the sun don’t shine because the Full Faith and Credit Clause requires GA to accept the records of another state.
Judge Leon, in the Strunk FOIA lawsuit, accepted what definitely appeared to be a forged Department of State “cable” as proof of a retention period being changed and millions of records being destroyed without there being any legally-required record of either the retention change or the destruction. Refused to even require the Passport Office to authenticate this supposed “cable”. And at the same time he accepted a search of 1978-2010 records as a “reasonable” search for 1965 records.
At this point judges don’t give a rip about their reputations where Obama is concerned. I could go on a long, long time (but will spare you. lol) about the blatant judicial corruption in the Obama cases. These guys either don’t care if everybody knows they’re jerking us around, or else they may even be WANTING us to know that their decisions are compromised.
I think their reasoning is sort of like the Roe v Wade thing. The stuff with Obama only counts for Obama, just like the stuff for Roe isn’t supposed to make sense with anything else. If anybody tried to actually use the reasoning from Roe v Wade they would be laughed out of court. Everybody knows the reasoning of Roe v Wade was just a bunch of baloney in order to justify legislating from the bench. If anybody argued the logical extensions of Roe v Wade we’d have to conclude that children in the womb can’t inherit, that corporations can’t be “legal persons”, that Blacks are still “human livestock”, and that the government has a vested interest in controlling women’s menstrual cycles as they represent “potential life”. Nobody argues those points because they know the court could never have meant what they said in Roe; it was just a one-time stupid decision that everybody rolls their eyes at because it’s so stupid but they let the facade go on as if it was a legitimate decision. In reality they ignore the stupidity of Roe because they want abortion on demand.
And the courts would never allow the same reasoning as used in the Obama cases for anything else. They know that Obama gets special treatment, just like abortion, because it’s judges playing politics. One set of laws for Obama and another for everybody else. Everybody knows that the courts won’t accept forgeries for anybody else but Obama so how Obama is treated makes no difference to anything else.
If the fake is confirmed as genuine, then they (HDOH) are affirming the putative parentage of "Obama" and the case goes forward on the basis of the presumed dual citizenship. If HDOH were to decline to vouch for the fake's veracity or refused to assist GA, then "Obama" gets kept off the ballot in the first, and HI looks mighty suspicious in the second.
This is good news if this is true. If one of these cases is based on the Minor definition of NBC, a compelling legal precedent from the nation's highest judicial authority, then it stands a chance of success. The farther Orly can be kept away, the better.
Keep in mind the Constitution declares that there must be a process for proving the validity of records under the Full Faith and Credit Clause. It's not enough, just to send the judge an e-mail. There is supposed to be a formal verification process. And the ironic thing, is that Obama himself voted for a validation process when he was a senator for anytime a birth certificate is used to obtain a drivers license or ID card.
Do you have a link to the document you saw requiring Obama to appear and present all his birth records, social security records, passport records, and selective service records, and for the HDOH to provide the original birth certificate as well as the microfilm roll in which Obama’s BC is filmed?
For the time being, please read this to get a better understanding of Georgia subpoenas in case you haven’t seen this:
http://www.dmqlaw.com/articles/HowtoEnsure.pdf
Just for info but still on topic: There’s a pretty good discussion going on at the moment (January 16, 2012 @12:17 EST) over on Hot Air concerning NBC, Romney, Jindal and Rubio under the Huntsman Withdraws thread. Conversation widens, folks.
I think Congress set the process for proving the genuineness as being the official seal on the document. Which a criminal HDOH would be more than willing to provide.
I’m not so sure the HI DOH is really willing to do this, otherwise Obama’s jpg and PDF would already have the official seal on them. Even if they did, it’s going to have to match the jpg or the PDF that Obama has already made public. If it doesn’t match, Obama is toast.
I wonder if GA can record all the phone calls this judge makes or receives between now and the time he makes his decision.
I find it hard to believe that Obama would be able to compromise the integrity of Chief Justice Roberts but wouldn’t be able to do the same for a GA state judge. I fear this is a set-up.
I agree with you that it’s good there are the other 2 cases that stand apart from Orly, because she’s botched up some of the legal details on her other cases. I’m glad she’ll be bringing some of the evidence of criminal activity and corruption to the judge’s attention, though; maybe it will make him more alert.
Of course, if this is a set-up it won’t matter how alert he is.
I told people at work that he is a born dual citizen, and they squirmed and said no way, the USA does not allow it. These are liberals. When I got done explaining the situation they were in shock.
I gave these points, in this order:
1. Obama is a Born Dual citizen, not a Natural Born Citizen.
2. The USA allows dual citizenship.
3. Minor Vs Happersett Defined NBC.
4. My Daughter is a Born Dual citizen, just like Obama.
My wife had told me, years before Obama was elected, that our daughter is a dual citizen. I myself wasn't sure about dual citizenship, so I looked at the Embassy of my wifes country and our state department. Sure enough, my daughter is a Born Dual Citizen, just like Obama.
I have a brother in the same situation. He has a boy and girl, both born dual citizens. His wife naturalized after they were born in the USA.
If my daughter is elected president, a foreign citizen would be elected president. She has an American BC and American citizenship, yet she is a foreign citizen.
I don’t think Roberts’ integrity is at stake here. A) We don’t know how much he knows about the natural-born citizen issue and B) we have rule of law that he still has to follow. He can’t arbitrarily decide not to follow established law based on his personal feeling about Obama’s eligibility. There’s still a process that must be followed, even though it’s not clear what this process actually is. As for Orly, I just don’t trust her integrity. She’s done too many things that have sabotaged her own efforts.
If Obama didn’t ever claim that what he posted was an actual birth certificate rather than an abstract, then the worst he would be charged with would be a violation of the Federal General False Statement Act. But there’d still have to be somebody willing to prosecute him and who would do that? It wouldn’t harm him politically because the evidence presented wouldn’t be posted online or be open to public scrutiny. It would just be the judge looking at it.
When we were working on the eligibility bill for Nebraska we wanted to make sure there was a way for the public to be able to scrutinize the documents because we have to have a transparency that would hold the government officials up to public scrutiny. In a court case there wouldn’t be that, so the whole thing would depend on the integrity of the judge.
In that regard I feel like a wife that’s been through about 5 two-timing husbands. Not really ready to love again, if ya know what I mean.
The HDOH was plenty willing to certify a COLB for Virginia Sunahara that has a BC# that makes no sense with ANY way of BC# reckoning. And if they truly have a forged BC in their files, as Corsi’s source claims, then Fuddy could claim ignorance of it being forged. Unless there’s evidence showing that Neal Palafox was forced to resign as HDOH Director because he refused to allow the forgery into the files, whereas Fuddy was willing to go along with it.
I don’t know where I had seen that, but I’m suspecting that it was probably just something that Orly typed up onto the blank form that had the judge’s signature. You’d think if Malihi actually ordered that it would show up on the legal documents posted online.
It’s amazing how uninformed people are. Obama even admits that he was born a dual citizen.
Of course, if he wasn’t born in the USA he wasn’t even a US citizen at birth; he would just have been British and not American at all. And still wouldn’t be American unless he naturalized at some point.
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