Confederate submarine finally revealed after being buried at sea for 150 years

UK Daily Mail ^ | January 13, 2012 | Staff

[C19fan]

The world got an unobstructed view of the Confederate submarine H.L. Hunley for the first time since the Civil War on Thursday as a massive steel truss that had surrounded the first sub in history to sink an enemy warship was finally removed. The truss weighing more than 8 tons had shrouded the sub since it was raised off the coast of South Carolina almost a dozen years ago.

[elcid1970]

Greatly informative post. Powerful intellects were at work on both sides in the Civil War.

Didn’t the Hunley survive long enough after the torpedo exploded for the captain to flash a blue lens success signal, and that this was seen & recorded on shore?

[TXnMA]

Yes, the blue light "mission accomplished" signal was recorded as having been seen by observers on Sullivan's Island.

Curiously, the current Friends of the Hunley (of which I'm a Charter Member) website refers to a "magnesium" blue light. However, the lantern with a blue lens that was recovered was a small, handheld carbide lamp -- similar in principle to those used by miners -- and certainly bright enough for the purpose of signaling over 4-5 miles.

When the X-rays of the recovered lamp were made available, I immediately located a very similar carbide lantern online. I hope to be able to examine that recovered lantern -- once it is freed from its incrustation...

There is a replica of the Hunley lamp on display at

http://travel.webshots.com/photo/2638440590103680599DJwFEh.

BTW, "carbide" lamps are technically acetylene lamps, since they meter water into a chamber containing solid calcium carbide, thus releasing acetylene gas, which burns as a brilliant white jet.

[elcid1970]

My grandfather used to be a coal miner. After he passed away I played with the carbide lamp he had worn. Started the drip then cupped my hand over the reflector & flicked the ignitor. Later my Dad gave me a Big Bang carbide cannon. Later still I took welding class and we were taught how acetylene gas is manufactured & bottled.

Having said all that, I now learn for the first time that acetylene lamps date back to the time of the Civil War. Always wondered how a candle lantern could have been seen that far from shore. Like the old saying goes,

“The ancients are stealing our wisdom again!”

[TXnMA]

"The ancients are stealing our wisdom again!"

LOL! Love that! Mind if I "borrow" it? As State Archaeological Steward and as chairman of our county's Historical Commission, there's no doubt I'll find uses for it...

My dad was a welder, and during WWII he had a carbide-fueled acetylene generator on his welding trailer. Since he always had a 50-lb drum of calcium carbide around, I had plenty to play and "experiment" with. Knowing what I now know about the wide range of explosive acetylene-air mixtures, it is a marvel I survived those (and other pyrotechnic) "experiments"...

We also had carbide headlamps (like miners wore) that we used when hunting bullfrogs (and often finding water moccasins) in the hundreds of abandoned, water-filled "slush pits" that dotted the "oil patch" where we lived.

Speaking of the "ancients", I was surprised to learn that the headlamps on some early automobiles (and, earlier, on fancy horse-drawn carriages) were ...carbide lamps!

Thanks for sharing the "ancients" saying!

[jmacusa]

Well Laz, does that mean you don’t think so but you doubt it? Or is that the firm possibility of a definite maybe?

[SunkenCiv]

GGG managers are SunkenCiv, StayAt HomeMother & Ernest_at_the_Beach	join list or digest view topics view or post blog bookmark post a topic subscribe
Thanks TXnMA, added, but not pingin'. :') Just adding to the catalog, not sending a general distribution. To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list.

[donmeaker]

Or eaten herself alive, due to a bad Dahlgren explosion. Only later was Dahlgren operation proven safe with full 30 lbs powder, and only later was Virginia equipped with shot, which would have had greater effect against armor.

John Ericsson was the naval architect of the Monitors, from Sweden, but had a ship construction yard in Brooklyn NY. Merrimac[k] was raised after it had been burned to the waterline, and re’christened “Virginia” but its old and worn engines were not up to much, used because the Confederacy could at that time build none better, and indeed, none as good. Further, the depth required to make way was deeper than that for the Monitor, forcing her to keep to the center of the river, and to retreat with unfavorable tide, limiting her maneuver.

The Monitor left the battle, after the captain was blinded, Despite that, “Virginia” was not able to do much in her absence, due to her deep draft and the falling tide. Minnestota’s captain grounding her had saved her a second time. Virginia was returning up stream when the Monitor returned.

By contrast “Virginia” had its captain, Buchanan injured the previous day, and had withdrawn from that day’s battle. During the Monitor vs. Merrimac[k] battle Virginia was conned by her XO, and at the end of the battle, Monitor was conned by her XO.

Confederate losses: Patrick Henry: hit by shot from a land fort. Eventually repaired and returned to service. Virgina damaged by gunfire, and ram damaged by contact with Cumberland. Virginia remained in drydock for almost a month.

US losses: Cumberland sunk by Virginia’s ram. Virgina’s ram broke in the engagement. Congress ran aground, and surrendered. Set fire by hot shot from Virginia after V. was fired on by US land based forces.

St. Lawrence, Roanoke, and Minnesota ran aground.

Neither ship ever fought again. Virginia was set on fire by her crew on May 9th 1862, and when the flames reached her magazine, blew up. Monitor was sent to North Carolina, and took on water, her fires went out, and then pumps failed. Most of the crew were rescued, but 16 men went down with her on Dec 31, 1862.

[donmeaker]

Columbia S.C. wasn’t rebuilt because the people in SC couldn’t find any slaves to do the skilled work.

[No Truce With Kings]

Actually, the Monitor had two eleven-inch Dahlgrens. That fired a 166-pound solid shot or a 133 pound shell. Later monitors had either one eleven-inch Dahlgrens and one fifteen-inch Dahlgren or two fifteen-inch Dahlgren.

The fifteen inch Dahlgren fired either a 440-pound solid shot or a 352-pound shell.

The nine-inch Dahlgrens were considered too small for ironclad monitors, although the New Ironsides carried them as I recall.

As to Civil War era submarines, Texas A&M Press has a book out in March about an 1864 submarine that was completed too late for the Civil War that was used for pearl harvesting after the war. (Believe it was a Union sub.) The book is “Misadventures of a Civil War Submarine.” Can’t wait for my copy.

[PghBaldy]

In case anyone is interested, here are the men from the Hunley - Find A Grave memorials:

http://www.findagrave.com/php/famous.php?page=pr&FSctf=223

[elcid1970]

To the best of my memory, I heard that “ancients” expression from a grad school professor around 1974. We were studying international relations, this in the wake of the Vietnam antiwar protests, youth revolt & counterculture and our prof, an old fashioned FDR liberal, scoffed at the protesters’ belief that they had invented well, protest movements.

When he pointed out the obvious, that popular uprisings and the writings which inspired them go back many centuries, his younger charges actually expressed their chagrin that all life, innovation and original thought did not begin with them (”don’t trust anybody over thirty!”).

He characterized their youthful arrogance as “The ancients are stealing our wisdom!”. As a recent Vietnam vet at the time, I found that hilarious.

For what it’s worth, our discussion of carbide lights sent me to eBay. Lots of them out there but I passed. Grandpa was a WW1 vet and worked in the coal mines until he saved enough to go to trade school and learn steam generation & operation. He got his license and a much better paying job as the boiler operator in a local factory, and worked until he was sixty six. The miners had lost their jobs by 1932 anyway; Grandpa would go to the mines to dig coal to heat his house but except for that his miner’s tools were souvenirs of an earlier time.

Once again, that diagram of the moment of impact between Hunley and Housatonic is an awesome image. Well done!

[TXnMA]

Thank you very much for seeing my working sketch as an image of a most historic moment!! I had never done so, because I was wrapped up in the "nuts & bolts" of our forum's main topic "How was the Hunley's torpedo deployed during the Housatonic attack?"

I still see that image as just a "freeze-frame" of a screen with all objects (Housatonic, water level, Hunley, spar, torpedo) independently movable and positionable using the mouse. (BTW, that yellow, cross-hatched "box" shows the range of the Hunley's "closest approach" positions described by the Housatonic's Captain Pickering.)

Note that the hull contours (hence the "draft") of the Housatonic I used were those of her "class" vessels -- the "Ossipee Class". That was done, because there was then (and still is now) a controversy over the Housatonic's draft. Somehow a number crept in (probably from another vessel by the same name) that indicated the Housatonic's draft was half that of her sister vessels -- which is an impossibility. (That big a difference in draft and displacement would place her in a different class entirely!) [Imagine claiming the Missouri had half the draft of the Iowa...]

And that discrepancy still exists. See the "Draft" specification at

"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Ossipee_(1861)"

versus that same spec at

"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Housatonic_(1861)"

Since the draft of the target vessel radically affected torpedo placement (and the Hunley's deployment scheme) we settled on using the "Class" specification. But, believe me, the discussions were lively! '-)

~~~~~~~~~

Wow! It just struck me that it has been long enough since those "pre-raising" forum days that even our "history discussions" and working sketches are now "history!! Talk about making me feel my own age... LOL!!

Again, thank you for the compliment of seeing significance in my own work -- that I had competely overlooked!!!

[TXnMA]

Your comment about your grandfather digging his own coal to heat his home took me somewhat by surprise. Don't know why, though -- since my ancestors (and I) cut and split our own firewood for the same purpose...

Sadly, Americans seem to be losing the (pioneering and depression eras) values of "making do with what's available by the sweat of your own brow". :-(

~~~~~~~~~

BTW, a note of personal thanks for this friendly, informative and enjoyable conversation!! IMHO, FR could use much more of the sort...

[elcid1970]

Thanks! I did think of one additional question about the attack on the Housatonic while looking at that diagram; maybe you have already discussed it.

Did those who designed and then modified the Hunley’s torpedo spar apply the principle of incompressibility of water, to insure that the point of detonation was as deep as possible? Like the RAF `skip bomb’, where the bomb detonated after sinking to the bottom of the dam wall.

Yes, we as a society are lacking in pioneer skills (looting supermarkets after a hurricane doesn’t count). There’s a growing `prepper’ movement but that’s mostly a matter of stockpiling & not telling anyone. Ask me about the fallout shelter craze, I was there.

My grandmother used to tell me how they survived the Depression in a small East Ohio town. It wasn’t so bad; Grandpa not only dug his own coal but hunted, fished, maintained a vegetable garden, and made homebrew & wine. Grandma canned and sewed, raised two kids and found odd jobs until Grandpa was working full time. Hardly any money, but adequate shelter, clothing, food and a social climate where nobody locked their doors even with unemployed men passing through seeking work. Completely destroys the “poverty causes crime” argument.

Finally, there’s something about the American Civil War: it’s been nearly a century and a half since Appomattox and yet bring up the subject and the entire conflict becomes like recent news. It’s in the present, it’s like unfinished business. World War Two seemed more distant as we watch its veterans age and pass from us. I just finished Bill O’Reilly’s “Killing Lincoln”; it’s like many Civil War books that read best in the presnt tense. Maybe because then, like now, was a time of tremendous technological advances accelerated by the tempo of war.

History is fun, there’s nothing else like it, except somebody recently observed that Santayana should have added, “Those who do remember history are also doomed to repeat it”.

V/R

[TXnMA]

"Did those who designed and then modified the Hunley’s torpedo spar apply the principle of incompressibility of water, to insure that the point of detonation was as deep as possible?"

Not sure how well they understood the incompressibility physics of water-tamped explosions, but I do know that they always planned to implant their "spar" torpedoes well below the waterline. That is, after they abandoned their first approach of towing a floating contact torpedo behind them, and dragging it under the target vessel.

When they got in a strong following current/wind situation and the torpedo almost caught up with them, the rope tangled in their propeller, and they almost blew themselves up, they abandoned that scheme as a bad idea!

I intend to do further research on the semi-submersible steam-powered "David" class Confederate torpedo boats that also operated out of Charleston Harbor:

According to Ragan, it was the "David" boats' crews who recommended the vertically-pivoting "Y-yoke" torpedo mounting (shown in the above drawing) to the Hunley's officers. (Recommendation made after Gen, Buregard forbade Dixon's crew to attack submerged...)

Somewhere in the forum files there is/was a small, enhanced and annotated photo of an abandoned "David" grounded and listed over at low tide -- with the "Y-yoke" visible... Maybe I can recover it.

Here's the photo online:

If you examine the bow closely, you can see the Y-yoke mounted torpedo spar...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

BTW, you have FReepmail...

[TXnMA]

AHA!! Found a photo of the captured "David"-class "Midge" on static display after the war -- with the y-yoke, spar and a contact torpedo clearly visible:

Wish we had investigated the entire "David"-class back in the Forum days...

~~~~~~~~~~~

BTW, contact torpedoes were NOT a good idea. On one attack, the splash from the explosion swamped the fires in a "David"'s boiler, and they were nearly captured before they could get her re-lit!

[elcid1970]

Hadn’t seen that first photo since the Centennial. There was a reference to it in “The Civil War in Pictures” (1955) which was a study of accuracy in reportage when newspaper reportage artistry made up for the relative lack of photographs (but the surviving photos bring the war back to the present, as noted earlier). But IIRC, the David boats unlike the Hunley were not true submarines but operated with their bulk just beneath the surface (how else to keep the fires going?).

The more we discover, the more we are amazed.

[TXnMA]

True. The steam-powered "Davids" were "semi-submersibles", which means they were designed to operate like the Hunley was forced to operate after Beauregard's edict.

Dixon (& McClintock?) and co. were smart to adopt the David's vertically-pivoting spar for the Hunley -- and even smarter when they chose to use an attachable, "leave-behind", lanyard-triggered design for the torpedo -- instead of the David's contact-fused torpedo.

[nobluelantern]

The lantern which was recovered from the H.L. Hunley submarine was not a carbide, or acetylene lamp. The carbide technology for lights was not invented until several decades after the American Civil War. The lantern found aboard the Hunley was an oil burning lamp, likely sperm whale oil; it had a bullseye lens, and was properly called a “dark lantern” due to its sliding shade which could reveal or hide the flame at the operator’s will. The “blue light” which was mentioned in the historical record of the engagement between the H.L. Hunley and the USS Housatonic was a pyrotechic firework signal in long use in both military and civilian sectors. It was not a magnesium light. The original formulae for its manufacture are listed in period US military texts, and I have reproduced it and tested it under conditions similar to those during the Hunley-Housatonic engagement. See YouTube: “Burning Blue Light” and “Making Civil War-Era Blue Light”