Shroud of Turin can’t be a fake, researchers say: Scientists unable to replicate cloth’s

NY Daily News ^ | Dec. 22, 2011 | Rheana Murray

[Free ThinkerNY]

The Shroud of Turin is very likely not the product of Medieval fakery, say Italian researchers who used modern technology to test the holy cloth’s authenticity.

Over five years of work, the scientists blasted modern linen with ultraviolet light and examined X-rays of the fabric, attempting to replicate the stunning Christ-like image exhibited in the Shroud.

The findings, released in November by Italy’s National Agency for New Technologies, Energy and Sustainable Development, showed they “achieved a very superficial, Shroud-like coloration of linen yarns,” according to a report on msnbc.com.

It fell way short of the characteristics of the real Shroud, however. They concluded therefore that Jesus’s supposed burial cloth could not have been doctored in Medieval times, as has been theorized during past studies, some of which relied on radiocarbon dating of fiber samples.

“We have shown that the most advanced technology available today is unable to replicate all the characteristics of the Shroud image,” lead researcher Paolo Di Lazzaro told msnbc.com in an email.

“As a consequence, we may argue it appears unlikely a forger may have done this image with technologies available in the Middle Ages or earlier.

[Caipirabob]

Didn’t a guy by the name of Douglas Wilson show a couple of years ago how the shroud could have been a made? I think he was a pastor or something in Idaho at the time.

I think that would have been pounded by the media into the collective mindset of the culture if he had.

They'd do anything to deprive Christianity of a major icon of the faith.

Last I had heard though was that there has been no one to date who has been able to come up with a convincing or accurate duplicate that can endure the same level of scrutiny.

[RummyChick]

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.146913178676534.20683.146647945369724&type=3

“Experts determined that the cloth of Manoppello is not Veronica’s veil, but rather the face cloth layed over the face of Jesus in the tomb. Unlike the Shroud of Turin, which is a “negative” of the image, the image on the face cloth is a “positive” of the face of Christ. “

[SVTCobra03]

“There will always be believers and disbelievers.

Just as there will always be Truthers that believe 911 was faked.

I have Faith that the cloth is real.That Jesus Christ was the son of God and that Mary was virgin.

If others do not have Faith, that is their problem.”

The shroud will just be another idol that members of the RCC cult will worship.

[kik5150]

What is fascinating about what is seen on the shroud is that it is a pixel image (made up of dots) with a resolution 5 times higher than the best commercial laser printer and it contains 3-D information. Also, the image is not formed by any dye, ink paint or burning, as the cloth fiber itself DOES NOT CONTAIN THE IMAGE! The image is formed only on the thin layer of soapwort which was left on the surface when the cloth was washed and dried during its manufacture. The pixels that create the image are spots of the soapwort that have been darkened by some unknown process, but the underlying fabric is completely unaffected. What is also amazing is that the image is on BOTH sides of the fabric. It is more visible on one side because there was more soapwort residue on that side, the side that was away from the sun as it was laid out to dry when the cloth was initially manufactured.

[popdonnelly]

I see the Democrat trolls have now arrived at Free Republic.

[RummyChick]

here is an interesting discussion about Veronica’s veil

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1646533/posts

[Invincibly Ignorant]

No, but I think there are several pieces of toast you can compare it to. ;-)

I just made a snow angel that looks very similar. :-)

[csense]

Thanks for the ping Swordmaker.

[The Great RJ]

The Turin Shroud always seemed to to be too elaborate for a Mdieval forgery. There were many holy relics in those days that were by today’s
understanding would be laughable in their crudeness, but in their day were regarded as genuine. A Medieval forger would have had no reason to make a forgery that defies 21st century science to explain how it was made and could have used a crude fake just as effectively. I doubt anyone during the time suggested by the carbon dating could even concieved let alone created the Shroud’s image. Is it the real burial shroud of Jesus? There really can be no proof ...the image is just unexplainable.

[Swordmaker]

It is called the Selennium (or something similar in spelling) and it said to be the cloth used to wipe his face that left an image

It's called the Sudarium of Oviedo... and it's a sweat cloth... no image on it. It has matching blood stains and a bloody handprint. It was used like a kerchief, wound and then wrapped under the chin, around the face, behind the ears and over the crown of the head to keep the mouth closed in death.

[Swordmaker]

Didn’t a guy by the name of Douglas Wilson show a couple of years ago how the shroud could have been a made? I think he was a pastor or something in Idaho at the time.

No, he made some sun bleached linen images... that faded as the sun bleached the rest of the cloth to match. He worked from a negative to duplicate another negative image. His did not look much like the Shroud... but it was a light image, not a 3D terrain map, which is what the Shroud image actually is.

[Swordmaker]

Didn’t a guy by the name of Douglas Wilson show a couple of years ago how the shroud could have been a made? I think he was a pastor or something in Idaho at the time.

No, he made some sun bleached linen images... that faded as the sun bleached the rest of the cloth to match. He worked from a negative to duplicate another negative image. His did not look much like the Shroud... but it was a light image, not a 3D terrain map, which is what the Shroud image actually is.

[fabian]

Yes, it is the face of our brother...I keep it as my screen saver always!

[sdpatriot]

Cool

thanks for posting and Merry Christmas.

[Swordmaker]

Veronica’s Veil, The Veil of Veronica, or Sudarium (Latin for sweat-cloth).

The sudarium and the veronica are two different cloths... The veronica comes from an entirely different tradition. The sudarium is supposedly the sweat cloth from the graveclothes. Veronica's veil is the cloth a woman used to help Jesus on the Via Delarosa when he slipped and she wiped his face with her veil. There are two known veronica's. One in the Vatican, and one in Manipolo... the one in Manipoli is on a very fine thin cloth called Byssus which comes from a sea urchin and can be seen from both sides but shows paint and is actually thought to be a self-portrait of Raphael ... the one in the Vatican is on Linen.

The name "Veronica" literally means "True Image"...

[Swordmaker]

Veronica’s Veil, The Veil of Veronica, or Sudarium (Latin for sweat-cloth).

The sudarium and the veronica are two different cloths... The veronica comes from an entirely different tradition. The sudarium is supposedly the sweat cloth from the graveclothes. Veronica's veil is the cloth a woman used to help Jesus on the Via Delarosa when he slipped and she wiped his face with her veil. There are two known veronica's. One in the Vatican, and one in Manipolo... the one in Manipoli is on a very fine thin cloth called Byssus which comes from a sea urchin and can be seen from both sides but shows paint and is actually thought to be a self-portrait of Raphael ... the one in the Vatican is on Linen.

The name "Veronica" literally means "True Image"...

[Swordmaker]

“Experts determined that the cloth of Manoppello is not Veronica’s veil, but rather the face cloth layed over the face of Jesus in the tomb. Unlike the Shroud of Turin, which is a “negative” of the image, the image on the face cloth is a “positive” of the face of Christ. “

Experts have determined no such thing. It is actually from a much later time and is reported in history. It is a self-portrait of the painter Raphael as a young man painted on Byssus... a very rare, extremely expensive cloth... or still expensive French Cambric cotton. There are extant letters between Raphael (1483-1520) and Albrecht Dürer (1471-1528) in which they discuss these transparent paintings which they exchanged between themselves. Under a microscope, pigments can be seen on the Manoppello veil., especially in the whites of the eyes.. and it is described in the Raphael letter to Dürer from 1507 - 1508. . . about 130 years before it shows up in Manoppello in 1638.

The first picture above is a self-portrait of Raphael at age 20, the second is the Manoppello Veronica, the third is Raphael's self-portrait at about 32 years old (He died at 37)... the two self-portraits book end the of age 22- 25 at which age he painted the byssus/cambric painting he sent to Dürer which is thought to be the image in Manoppello. You can see the image is very much like him.

The last image is the Vatican's Veronica... on linen.

[Venturer]

And what cult do you belong to?

[arjay]

My faith does not depend on the shroud of Turin.
It is based entirely on Scripture.
No, I do not believe the shroud is what some claim it to be.

[RummyChick]

There seems to be a lot of questionable statements made as fact when it comes to these Veils.

I still don’t have a definitive answer as to whether the expert on byssus said this veil was made of byssus or cambria.

What exactly did she say?

In regards to the transparent paintings...are you sure that Raphael sent a transparent painting?

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=transparent%20paintings%20raphael%20letters%20to%20d%C3%BCrer&source=web&cd=5&ved=0CDcQFjAE&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwebspace.yale.edu%2Fwood%2Fdocuments%2Fmessagefromraphaelenglish.pdf&ei=uf71TtK3MYqOgwevsYWzAg&usg=AFQjCNEdcZ75LuLwUh2_RjqVC1uoW2C8yA&cad=rja

Certainly Durer did. Certainly it shows it is possible. Maybe Raphael didn’t paint it but someone else did.

If the veil is byssus and not cambric does that change the dynamic?

By the way, what do you think of Vincent Ruello’s claim that he can see the face on Veronica’s veil at St Peters through his special filming process. I found that this morning but all the videos have been removed that I have found so far - leading me to think it was a hoax.