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The ECAT Floodgates Open! Now what will come out?
Vanity ^ | 10/31/11 | Liberty1970

Posted on 10/31/2011 11:18:45 AM PDT by Liberty1970

As everyone following the saga of Andrea Rossi and his Energy Catalyzer knows, October 28 reputedly saw the successful testing of his '1 megawatt' cold fusion plant and the first sale. Now Rossi has reported the sale of 'more than 2' such ECAT units, with rumors on the net indicating 13 sales.

It is unclear whether this involves the sudden physical transfer of twelve more completed ECATS (unlikely), or that money has changed hands and sales agreements have been concluded for delivery of such units. Rossi has indicated first-year production of 30-100 such units, so a dozen ECATS represents a significant fraction of capacity for the year to come.

We also have to cope with the fact that the customers have not been identified. Those of us seeking verification for the reality of ECAT claims want, above all else, to see test results verified by someone other than Rossi (or his compatriots). Surely his buyers are in a position to validate his claims as they receive working ECATs. So it is frustrating to be left wondering who those buyers are, even if they may have good reason at this point to preserve anonymity.

That's been the problem all along - for every reason to be skeptical, there is a reasonable interpretation of the same data from the viewpoint that the ECAT is real. The first purchasers may be companies seeking to gain a competitive advantage within their industry using the ECAT, such that publicizing their purchase prematurely would be against their own best interests. I won't waste my time speculating.

And I do think some speculation in the media has been unreasonable. For example, one media outlet commented that Rossi might be honestly mistaken about the power output of his ECAT. Really? Back when LENR enthusiasts were trying to squeeze a few extra watts out of an experiment that might have been plausible, but Rossi himself claims to have run an ECAT for two years. And we are now talking about hundreds of kilowatts, enough to power or heat scores of homes, from a single unit. He either knows he's lying or not. He either is faking it, has the real goods, or has accidently created (and charged up) a spectacular battery that would be almost as stunning as the ECAT idea itself.

What we do know is that Rossi has claimed multiple sales to unknown parties, with more on the way. This is suspicious to me, but it is problematic to conclude the ECAT is a fraud. If it's a fraud it was very skillfully executed, and is now being taken to a whole new level. It now involves Rossi engaging the services of quite a few actors/contractors who played the role of buyers in the 10/28 test. They would have to be aware of the hubbub surrounding the ECAT, and that this would be no mere prank but a serious case of fraud they are getting involved in. They can't all be stuffing cash into suitcases and heading for the hills.

If I'm right, the number of people who would know the ECAT is a fraud would have to be kept as small as possible. Skeptics are fond of comparing the ECAT to past 'free energy' claims where an inventor kept investors waiting, and waiting, and waiting. But Rossi is (at face value) selling real units, not promising vaporware. A fraudulent ECAT simply can't survive physical transfer to independent buyers who can and will soon confirm its operation.

So now we have claims of multiple sales, and Rossi says the first unit has been physically transfered to the buyer. If the buyers are real, even the one first sale should unleash a howl that the public will hear if the ECAT is a dud. The worst case is that the buyers remain anonymous and/or the physical deliveries are delayed, in which case satisfactory non-Rossi confirmation of ECATs is delayed.

But with plans to build 30-100 units in a year and multiple successes under his belt, Rossi will have few excuses to delay shipping units to real customers, and not every one of them will be bent on total secrecy. And let's be sensible - he can only have so many compatriots willing to participate in false sales as the hype builds.

So the ECAT floodgates are open - now we just need to watch what emerges. Outraged customers, continuing secrecy and obfuscation, or delighted and eager buyers at the forefront of a revolution?


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Conspiracy; Miscellaneous; Science
KEYWORDS: coldfusion; defkalion; ecat; focardi; rossi
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To: Liberty1970
You seem to have a bit of an obsession with that 'magic box' link. Why does it strike you as being relevant?

It's relevant to your vanity, in particular the part of your vanity that I quoted.

21 posted on 10/31/2011 12:04:43 PM PDT by Moonman62 (The US has become a government with a country, rather than a country with a government.)
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To: Moonman62
I annoy both sides. The hardened skeptics are upset that I don't share their conclusion and take every bit of data as proof its all a fraud. And the true believers are annoyed I don't put a positive spin on everything. You can read my article above and my middle-of-the-road position is as plain as day. I said back in June that 'my baloney meter is stuck at 50%' on this subject and it remains so to this day.

I will admit, however, to being more annoyed at the hardened skeptics than at the true believers. The reasons for this are complex, but partly involve my frustration at the often specious reasoning used by those who seem to think they are smarter than everyone else.

22 posted on 10/31/2011 12:05:21 PM PDT by Liberty1970 (Daddy to Lily Ann, born 3:50 AM, 10/15/11, 9 lb/4 oz. of joy!)
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To: Hodar
With winter on the way - if it’s nothing more than an efficient means to heat a factory - that alone may be worth the cost of buying one.

I would like to see one used to heat an apartment complex, mall or office building for the winter. Just install it in an independent location and let it run.

23 posted on 10/31/2011 12:09:47 PM PDT by PapaBear3625 (Civilization is unnatural. It is a whim of circumstance. Barbarism must always ultimately triumph.)
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Name Another Site Where You Can Get As Much Information

Can't Think Of One?

Then Why Don't You Donate

24 posted on 10/31/2011 12:20:42 PM PDT by DJ MacWoW (America! The wolves are here! What will you do?)
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To: Liberty1970

My guess is that, if it works, that the potential buyers will sit on it and continue to sell their more profitable energy producing products.


25 posted on 10/31/2011 12:20:55 PM PDT by boycott (CAL)
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To: Liberty1970

I would sure like someone to explain the iron powder that was present in his “used” nickel powder.


26 posted on 10/31/2011 12:23:41 PM PDT by mamelukesabre
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To: boycott

doubt it. what they will do is try to find a legal means to prevent others from building and selling what they themselves want to build and sell.

There are too many people who want this to be true, that’s why I am skeptical.


27 posted on 10/31/2011 12:34:56 PM PDT by mamelukesabre
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To: boycott

“My guess is that, if it works, that the potential buyers will sit on it and continue to sell their more profitable energy producing products.”

If it works, there is a billion dollar plus advance waiting for him from any one of twenty companies for US distribution rights.


28 posted on 10/31/2011 12:35:48 PM PDT by ModelBreaker
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To: mamelukesabre
I would sure like someone to explain the iron powder that was present in his “used” nickel powder.

That or the copper, which has the same ratio of isotopes as natural copper.

As a side note, Rossi claims in his patent application that fission also occurs in the ecat.

29 posted on 10/31/2011 12:38:20 PM PDT by Moonman62 (The US has become a government with a country, rather than a country with a government.)
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To: USNBandit

“One possible way to tell if E-Cat is real or not is to look at funding. If he secured a loan from the U.S. DOE, then it is definitely a fraud. :)”

Not necessarily a fraud. But it is certainly way too expensive to produce energy that competes with fossil fuel.


30 posted on 10/31/2011 12:43:37 PM PDT by ModelBreaker
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To: Liberty1970
FYI, Rossi is now offering to sell E-Cat devices to anyone who's interested:

http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=516&cpage=6#comment-107295

I look forward to reading the reviews of whoever receives their E-Cat device first.

31 posted on 10/31/2011 12:47:45 PM PDT by Johnny B.
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To: Moonman62

well, I don’t believe physicist and nuclear chemists know everything. Just because they can’t explain how it could be possible doesn’t mean it isn’t possible.

But the iron powder is curious. Rossi never mentioned iron being involved. I think either Rossi is very clever for throwing in a little iron just to throw people off, or he just isn’t all that bright and really has no idea how his device works.


32 posted on 10/31/2011 12:48:15 PM PDT by mamelukesabre
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To: Hodar
I think he's packaged it as a heating system "boiler". With the world getting very near to replacing ALL incandescent and fluorescent lights with Light Emitting Diodes that can last 300,000 hours between changes, there's going to be plenty of demand for heating units that can cheaply substitute for the lost secondary heat source composed of lighting.
33 posted on 10/31/2011 12:48:39 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: mamelukesabre
http://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/Kirkinskiifusionreac.pdf ~ one of a number of pieces that deal with the existence of iron in the residue ~ or in the initial processing bodies.

Iron Hydride is also a possible source. Folks who know batteries can work with that a bit if they want.

34 posted on 10/31/2011 12:54:56 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah
cheaply substitute for the lost secondary heat source composed of lighting

You are 100% correct. When you consider the sheer number of watts in a typical building that were expended for lighting; then consider that 60-90% of that power was transferred to heat; I wonder how many buildings are going to be so inefficient due to the loss of the secondary heating units, that the primary heating unit can no longer maintain (or inefficiently maintain) comfortable heating levels. I'd venture a guess that the yearly energy bill for these buildings will actually go 'up'.

35 posted on 10/31/2011 12:56:57 PM PDT by Hodar ( Who needs laws; when this FEELS so right?)
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To: Moonman62
BTW Moonman62, let's say "somebody" got here first ~ billions of years back ~ and brought their LENR devices with them. Assume they set them up for large scale power production, and they sat in place for a very long time (while, perhaps, rare substances were mined).

All that waste copper would be left right there in circular heaps ~ kind of like we find copper ore these days.

The product of this ancient but otherwise typical LENR power unit would most likely produce "ash" that has the same ratio of isotopes as we find in a more recent device of similar design.

Hmm ~ you come up with such great questions that lead instantly to "ANCIENT ALIENS" material. I'll have to add that one to my collection!

36 posted on 10/31/2011 1:01:47 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Liberty1970

For a scam this story has legs...


37 posted on 10/31/2011 1:01:59 PM PDT by desertfreedom765
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To: ModelBreaker

And the fan blades they’d force him to add to his units ~ they’d be huge ~ and very dangerous that close to the ground!


38 posted on 10/31/2011 1:03:08 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: justlurking; Liberty1970
Yes, if it produces heat it can produce electricity. It should be a trivial exercise.

But for some reason Rossi is willing to utilize huge systems to carry away heat rather than build a steam generator that would let him export that heat as electricity. He should be able to buy something close to what he needs and modify it for his purpose. But he hasn't.

But I'm patient. I want him to succeed. I await the day that Rossi lights up Times Square with his gizmo - but it may be a long wait.

But there is something about the way this technology is being "sold" that just doesn't feel right.

39 posted on 10/31/2011 1:05:52 PM PDT by InterceptPoint
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To: muawiyah

only in cold climates

in warm climates, everyone will have AC units way too big.

btw, electronics are becoming more efficient(less waste heat
) also. I’ve been wondering when someone will invent a clothes dryer that uses microwave radiation from a magnetron instead of combustion or electric heating element.


40 posted on 10/31/2011 1:13:09 PM PDT by mamelukesabre
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