Posted on 08/01/2011 7:01:31 AM PDT by Liberty1970
Beware the Unveiling of the 1 MW Reactor in October
For months those of us watching the E-Cat story unfold have been eagerly looking forward to the last week in October and the unveiling of the first 1 megawatt thermal reactor at Defkalion's factory in Greece. Andrea Rossi has steadfastly refused to provide more public evidence for the reality of the E-cat, pointing instead to the 1 MW reactor operation as the proof everyone should be waiting for.
Skeptics and believers alike have cited this date as well, indicating that we will all know by the end of October whether the world has changed and the Energy Catalyzer is for real.
Or will we?
Rossi, in recent communications, has indicated that some 'elite' American scientists will be at the unveiling of the 1 MW reactor, as well as physicists Dr. Brian Josephson (Nobel laureate), Drs. Kullander and Essen of Sweden, and Dr. Levi. Once concern I have here is that all those named have previously given public statements of support for the E-cat. Not that I expect Rossi to invite his enemies or competitors, but it would be nice to know there are some scientists coming who are not part of Rossi's cheerleading squad, as it were.
Moreover, this event simply cannot be a repeat of the frustrating public demonstrations given earlier this year, which provide evidence but not proof of the operation of the E-Cat. I've frequently heard people comment that you 'can't fake a 1 MW reactor' as if that scale of operation simply can't be performed with hidden, mundane, power generation.
Hogwash. Given the scope of this whole story and the hundreds of millions of dollars already on the table, it would be a simple thing to go to the trouble of pumping 1 MW of electricity into the array of 330 E-Cats with hidden power lines and convert it to thermal energy using resistance heaters embedded in the false E-Cat devices. (I don't think batteries or other on-board power generation would be sufficient for this stage of the scam, if scam it is.)
In recent weeks we've been hearing about how Defkalion is asking for $40 million euros for exclusive manufacturing rights in each country from franchise purchasers. This strikes me as bizarre. Why should I pay as much to supply Luxembourg or Albania as someone else pays for the U.S. or Japan? Why not auction off the franchises to the highest bidder once proof has been established? (That's probably a naive way to go about it too, but strikes me as better than one flat price as I've currently heard.)
The $40 million price tag raises a red flag for me. I hope I'm wrong, but I wonder how many people are willing to take the risk and hand over that kind of money now, or will jump to do so as soon as they see the 1 MW reactor running in October. If this is a scam, that's where the big money is.
So that's my fear - that the 1 MW reactor will turn out to be a fake, but one that pulls in hundreds of millions of euros in the first few weeks before things start to really fall apart as promised shipments of E-cats to independent sources (outside of Rossi's control at last) fail to materialize. My message to Rossi and the folks at Defkalion is: you've still got more than two months. Use it to plan out how you intend to PROVE to us, your customer base and the world at large, that the E-cat is real.
Don't have the E-cat array hidden or embedded in conrete - have it up in as accessible a configuration as possible. Every hose, every power line, anything that could carry a wire should be accessible for inspection and independent metering as applicable. Let the scientists (including some heretofore uncommitted ones) and journals have full access to the setup (as much as safety allows). Have some single E-cats also set up, operational and available for inspection and metering. Let the visitors bring their own equipment for inspection and metering. I understand you need to keep some trade secrets, but find ways to let independent researchers prove beyond any reasonable doubt that the E-cat is doing what you say it is doing, without any hidden power sources.
Engage the honest skeptics now to understand what we'd like to see, what we need to see, to really satisfy everyone. Please.
How would he do that when he gave two units to two universities to be tested in their labs? Bologna and another one.
“What impressed me about him is that he wasn’t interested in outside investors, at all. Never asked to read the restrictions on my offer, just a polite, “No, thank you.””
What makes that a statement of legitimacy?
Believe that if you wish, but an incredible amount of public money has gone into cold fusion; a number of otherwise reputable scientific institutions, supported by public funds have allowed their credibility to be tarred by this junk; and it all became fair game when the press releases started pouring out like raw sewage. Were it just private funds from consenting adults no one would much care.
“How long do you think he would still be breathing unassisted if he accepted 40M from someone for a scam? Think he would make it for an entire week?”
Go ask Madoff. He scammed $18 Billion. Or go ask any number of scam artists over the centuries. How many have been killed? Few if not none. So, trying to say this cannot be a scam because he would be killed is ignoring reality and history.
“Patents mean nothing these days. The Chinese do not care about patents.”
Maybe not IN China, but OUTSIDE China patents matter. The EU and the US will not allow a Chinese product that violates a patent to be sold.
According to your logic, no one should ever file a patent because the Chinese could steal it and sell it worldwide, which is simply not true.
Rossi to my knowledge has asked for no public funds.
“They’re po’d “
Who is PO’d? No one I know of. If anything, the scientists of the world are upset because this is just another scam that makes science look bad. If scientists do not get upset at scams ans stay silent then people like you claim scientists are all scam artists as they don’t ever say anything about known scams.
I did some googling on this. I found that Rossi said that he signed the contract for the e-cat research at the University of Bologna on 21 June, 2011, only a little more than a month ago. I have not seen anything to indicate that a devise has been provided to anyone anywhere to be independently evaluated. Your statement stands in contrast to that.
It would be very interesting data if Mr. Rossi had given one of his devices to a University to evaluate. I have not seen any indication of it so far.
Penn Square Bank went belly up and took down a quarter to half a billion dollars (1970’s dollars) of uninsured deposits because of making worthless loans.
In turn they brought down Continental Bank, whose sharp eyed bankers bought their bad loans by the truckload.
Guess being known as fools is no deterrent to fools.
It's far more dangerous to cheat someone of $40 than $40 million and you'll serve more time for stealing $40,000 with a gun than $40,000,000,000 with a pen.
“I must be doing fine then because my net worth has increased substantially in the past ten years.”
Anyone investing money into a technology they do not understand and there is no proof of viability is going to lose that money. Spending for R&D is one thing as loses are expected, but expecting to invest into technology with a return on that investment requires more than a mere gamble.
Had you invested that $200k into his works you would not at this time be recognizing any profit.
Also, if this were real, $200k is peanuts for such technologies to bring them to market. We just authorized $4 million just for documentation for something substantially less of a technology. We spend $200k just for one person for one year in total load costs, and the captial budget exceeeds $2.5 million just for a POC. $200k? That’s not even an investment. It’s not even worth the paperwork to bring it in.
Bull.
The ‘scientific community’ could have simply said nothing and not touched this with a 10-foot pole until it was shown to be a success. This is the problem with the ‘scientific community’ is there’s too much communal thinking, which leads to too many kneejerk, emotional reactions.
If you don’t think something’s on the up and up, the best thing is to not give it press. They jumped in and gave him press, and thereby escalated this situation. Most business people are skeptical till they see something that works, and that’s why you don’t see this thing being pushed in the WSJ, Forbes, or even the mainstream tech rags.
We’re all just sitting back and waiting till October.
They would steal it for their own use. Something of this order of magnitude, if it’s for real, would be a game changer for everybody. The EU and the US would be busy trying to steal it as well as Russia and even Malawi if they could get away with it. I’ve worked with Asian manufacturer’s for products we designed in the US but were to be produced in their country. You order 20,000 units. They make 50,000 and sell the others under their own brand name....................
The scientific community gives him press? I call bull back at you. He continues to try to gin up press. No one really gives him much.
They were amazed when he demonstrated that electricity and lightning were the same ~ and all with a single demonstration.
He knew they were the same all along ~ because he was smart, and he made substantial use of that quantum quality we discussed yesterday where you only need to know half of everything to be able to trick everybody every time!
Now, about this guy with the Doctorate who has his paper out there being looked at by all and sundry, did you send him some comments?
Regarding manipulating the weak force, to do that effectively don't you simply have to turn an up-quark into a down-quark?
“Something of this order of magnitude, if it’s for real, would be a game changer for everybody.”
If this were real he would be a wealthy man and the world would no doubt steal it from him in some fashion. So people are trying to say he wants investors to make him rich before the world steals it from him. That being known, there is also no investor that would give him money knowing they, too, would be in the same boat as he would be.
This entire investor angle makes no sense. Hell, this entire scam defies common sense.
“He continues to try to gin up press.”
And the ‘scientific community’ apparently took the bait, otherwise they wouldn’t be so upset and responding so dramatically.
Yeah, and at some point if you are making scientific claims you have to prove the science. There are such avenues as patents to protect intellectual property.
When Rossi was working in the garage, if he needed cash you can bet $200k would have seemed like the answer from heaven to him.
You are used to working with grants in big, full laboratories with more equipment than you’ll ever use — all paid for with taxpayers dollars. Consequently, you have no value for a dollar. That’s your problem, not mine.
You have no idea how much about yourself you revealed in your last post. This will be my final post to you.
Kevmo may know what thread(s) it is in.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.