Patent granted for the energy catalyzer [Rossi's E-Cat takes another step toward reality?]

Ny Teknik ^ | 5/9/11 | Mats Lewan

[Liberty1970]

The Italian energy catalyzer that seems to be based on an unknown nuclear reaction is now patented in Italy. The examination continues regarding protection in the rest of the world.

The Italian Patent Office, Ufficio Italiano Brevetti e Marchi, granted a patent for the energy catalyzer on April 6, 2011, valid until April 9, 2028.

The inventor is Andrea Rossi, while his wife Maddalena Pascucci is the patent owner.

The final content of the patent is public but not directly available online (details on how to order the content can be found here).

According to Rossi ten of the original 15 claims remain (see below).

It is not clear if the patent means that the secret details of the energy catalyst can be revealed.

“Now I have to think and, based on the effective patent protection, we can decide what to disclose,” Andrea Rossi said.

The patent office in Italy confirmed that it is a normal patent which was granted after technical examination of the filed application.

[JackOfVA]

First, the relationship between voltage and current phase is determined by the load, and is not set at the power plant. If the load is purely resistive, then voltage and current are in phase. If the load has a reactive component (either capacitive or inductive) then the current and voltage are no longer in phase and the current either leads or lags the voltage. The angle between voltage and current depends upon the relationship between resistance and reactance in the load. The product of volts x amperes in an AC system is called VAR or “volt ampere reactive” and VAR = watts only for a resistive load.

It become more complicated with other than simple loads. If you look at the current and voltage of any device with a rectifier and filter in it — as found in the usual electronic power supply — you will note that current is drawn only during the peak voltage period, and the peak current will be several times the average current. I’ve written about this and supplied some oscilloscope captures in connection with CFL analysis at http://www.cliftonlaboratories.com/compact_fl.htm.

The point is that when someone says X watts is used by a “black box” and determines that number by multiplying current (from a clip on ammeter) and voltage from a voltmeter, that answer has the potential to be seriously wrong. It may or may not be wrong in this case, but it is certainly something that is an obvious example of incomplete methodology that carries a risk of error.

Jack

[Normandy]

You are right about magicians — they are out to trick and mislead. They have a motive: they are in show business. I cannot see Rossi’s motive for trickery. He’s not making money from his E-Cats, and only will make money once energy is provided to his customers.

If he’s a scammer he’s a very curious one — is he looking for infamy?

[B4Ranch]

>>”extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof” and removing any possibility for scamming is necessary.<<

Glance in the direction of Al Gore or 1600 when you say that and if there is no response then I’ll believe you.

[TheOldLady]

Even this baby owes thousands on the national debt

Give what you can
Or donate monthly, and a sponsoring FReeper will contribute $10

Lazamataz is hanging by a pixel!

[dangerdoc]

Look at the whole Eestor story. They weren’t scamming to get rich, as far as anybody can see, all investments have been spent on research and infrastructure. But they are now 3 years late on delivery.

[B4Ranch]

The difference is Rossi doesn’t owe anyone a single dime and all contracts certainly include the term, “when available.”

Does this sound like a scammer?

Rossi says he will not be paid by Defkalion until the installation is delivered and works.[34] The company’s spokesman Symeon Tsalikoglou has confirmed the agreement.[35][36]

[dangerdoc]

Eestor operated completely under the Radar for years, but in the end, they could not produce the promised technology.

It is not my job to defend or convict Mr. Rossi, but the best scammers are the ones that don’t put off bad vibes. He could even believe his own story and still be pushing a sham, stranger things have happened.

What would make me more comfortable is if he would let people sign NDA’s and take home his invention and put it through more rigorous testing.

Don’t take me wrong, I’m rooting for this guy.

[Flying Circus]

Yeah, but the price of Nickel will go through the roof!

[GSWarrior]

What ever happened to the energy machine of Joseph Newman?

[dangerdoc]

Or sono fusion?

[Wonder Warthog]

"What would make me more comfortable is if he would let people sign NDA’s and take home his invention and put it through more rigorous testing."

Which is precisely what he "has" done. Ninety-seven units are out with various potential users, and I'm sure they are not using them as table decorations. And those NDA's are the precise reason you're not hearing from them. I suspect that there will be a deluge of information once Rossi "pulls the trigger" and lets those testers speak up.

[Wonder Warthog]

I bow to your superior knowledge. If there is one area where my tech background is weak it is in understanding the vagaries of AC power. Pretty much all my experience is with DC in various instruments. As long as the stuff comes out of the wall when I trip the switch, I'm happy.

All that said, in some of the videos, Rossi "is" monitoring something with a scope during the demonstrations, and it certainly looks to me as though it is a pulsed output suitable for driving a heater.

[Georgia Girl 2]

Buy nickel futures.

[mugwump56]

The Rossi Patent is available in English. Just google WO 2009/125444 A1. --- I'm no expert and may not be able to answer your question directly but I know a little bit about how patents work having self-patented a couple of low-tech inventions with the US Patent office. The most legally significant part of the patent are the claims. The claims must describe the 'thing itself', the actual device, not philosophies or outcomes. Yet while describing the actual device the claims should still try to use general terms wherever possible. This broadens the scope of the invention and makes it harder for competitors patent similar devices. --- Rossi's claims clearly describe the device we who follow the story are familiar with. Langauge includes exothermic reactions of hydrogen and nickle powder under pressure. I'm not sure but I think this covers it. It may not be necessary to actually use the term nuclear. Since exothermic means 'heat producing', this would include nuclear reactions assuming these are actually occurring. (An engineer might inform us if chemical-based exothermic reactions of nickle powder and hydrogen are also possible.) --- To receive a patent, an invention must also show utility, that is it must be shown to function as described. My understanding is that this patent was intially denied on grounds there was no theoretical basis for the energy gains claimed. But patent applications often go through several rounds of denial and appeal before a final verdict is rendered. Sometimes an actual demonstration of the device is made before the patent examiners in which case utility would trump lack of theory. In other words, if it works as described and is unique, it deserves a patent. --- Does this mean the Italian Patent Office get their own private eCAT demo and thus found it worthy? If so, what were their standards: exothermic heat explainable by chemical reactions or otherwise inexplicable heat? --- The 'secret sauce' is not included in this patent but apparently is slated for a new one to follow. But Rossi's consulting physicist Focardi tells us the secret catalyst is a common compound that acts to maintain the hydrogen in an atomized state, that is, individual molecules of H as opposed to stuck together H2. Supposedly this this makes it easier for the hydrogen to pass into a nucleus of nickle and if true would be Rossi's key insight. --- The guy doing the 'is it real or fraud' breakdown on all known eCat demos is Allan Fletcher. His work is excellent and incredibly exhaustive. A long list of all possible fakes including chemical, electrical, calibration, water diversion and more are weighed against the data. His conclusion, inclusive of the April Ny Teknik demos: no one demo excludes all possible fakes but all demos taken as a collective do!--- I really hope the eCat is for real. Living to see the fossil fuel industry crumble like Sauron's dark tower would be a joy unhoped for. Cold Fusion could even mean the power to outlive the stars themselves. But I'm still waiting for that truly definitive moment.

[Gondring]

The Rossi Patent is available in English. Just google WO 2009/125444 A1. ---

Thank you!

Is the recent patent available, too? If so, please post its number.

A long list of all possible fakes including chemical, electrical, calibration, water diversion and more are weighed against the data. His conclusion, inclusive of the April Ny Teknik demos: no one demo excludes all possible fakes but all demos taken as a collective do!---

Not at all. Allan Fletcher states, as of 9 May 2011:

Therefore, at present, we cannot conclusively rule out ALL possible fakes, so it is not yet PROVED that the Rossi device is real.

. I really hope the eCat is for real.

Scam artists often play on hopes, and I've read of Andrea Rossi's previous scams (e.g., Petroldragon). So while it would be great, I have little hope of it.

[mugwump56]

Yes, parallel fakes could explain existing results. Though I did not state this, that is what I still believe. Also Rossi has also been described as ‘impressive’ and ‘charming’ which are often typical traits of confidence men. So yes, I’m still nervous about fraud.

Allan Fletcher did make those initial comments that “all demos taken as a collective rule out all possible fakes”. Of course, this is not good enough. Fletcher may have upgraded his scepticism lately but then he is actively responding to new information as it comes in as any good scientist should.

I would still like to know more about how the decision was made to finally grant the patent. I would think the Italian patent office would be on high alert considering the notoriety of this case and would set the bar high. It would also be nice to have an engineer/patent attorney comment on the scope of the patent.

What is your position on Cold Fusion in general, i.e., reports the US Navy has replicated Pons and Fleischmann, DARPA reversing their position on cold fusion, esteemed researcher and one time Cold Fusion detractor Dr. Robert Duncan reversing his position, all the new peer-reveiwed research promoted by Jed Rothwell and so on?

Perhaps it is precisely this expectation of an immanent breakthrough that Rossi is exploiting. If there is fraud I tend to think it would be happening on the Defkalion side of things. Supposedly they have raised 200 million Euros from somebody. I hope those investors got better demos than the rest of us.

[Gondring]

I would still like to know more about how the decision was made to finally grant the patent.

Interesting that the International Patent page states the IPC are "C01B 3/00 (2006.01), C01B 6/02 (2006.01)," but the Italian patent listing gives a "Class Code" (which I assume is the IPC determination) of H01M.

The definition of H01M? Check it out... here (PDF).

PROCESSES OR MEANS, e.g. BATTERIES, FOR THE DIRECT CONVERSION OF CHEMICAL ENERGY INTO ELECTRICAL ENERGY (electrochemical processes or apparatus in general C 25; semiconductor or other solid state devices for converting light or heat into electrical energy H 01 L, e.g. 31/00, 35/00, 37/00)

What is your position on Cold Fusion in general [...]

I think that it's possible that there are mechanisms for "cold" fusion that might be viable someday, but I'm not an expert in the field. I do, however, know enough about some of the instrumentation I've seen in videos and other listings, and I wonder if they're using the correct instrumentation. I also wonder why they don't follow conventional means of bringing discoveries forward (and of testing).

[aNYCguy]

Okay, let me give a fuller response. I have three basic problems here.

The first problem is that the facts of Rossi's story aren't convincing. I've read the Swedish experimental report. It creates more questions than it answers. Was the "auxiliary heater" turned on during the test? At what power? What does it even mean to say that the auxiliary heater is present to act as a safety if the heat gets out of control? Why did they use a "power meter" and not an oscilloscope to measure the current to the main heater (to eliminate the possibility of high-frequency power transfer)? They apparently calibrated the fluid apparatus in some quick and dirty way, but were the electrical measurements calibrated at all? Getting to your question of how this would be done fraudulently, playing games with electrical power input would create several options; e.g. delivering short high-power pulses that aren't detected by a typical mains-frequency ammeter.

Basically, the physicists' report does not even leave me with a basic understanding of what was being tested, and how. Ironically, even they didn't have a good idea of what was being tested, as they apparently did not have access to the supposed reactor core! They were given a sample of metal powder which Rossi claims was the fuel to the reactor, and a sample of metal powder which Rossi claims came from a reactor after fusion. Unless I've missed some other report, this entire line of evidence of fusion based on nickel-to-copper transmutation is entirely based on Rossi's word. It is particularly suspicious, also, that the supposed spent fuel has the naturally-occurring isotopic composition. The Swedish scientists themselves call this "somewhat strange." Less generous commentators have called this sure evidence of outright fraud.

My second problem is that Rossi's claims would require radically new physics. Even beyond the standard cold-fusion claims, there's a big problem with the fact that no radiation is detected outside the device. Rossi's theory is, according to accepted physics, complete nonsense. The fact that there is a miniscule possibility that he has in fact revolutionized physics doesn't mean that this is not a blinding red flag.

My third basic problem is that Rossi acts like a kook. He has named his blog the Journal of Nuclear Physics, and claims that "All the articles published on the Journal Of Nuclear Physics are Peer Reviewed." This is embarrassing. He also claims that he's just too busy to have scientists from tier-one institutions like MIT verify his claims. His "board of directors" includes at least one nonexistent person. This is how cranks act. For me it's another red flag.

Basically, I'll agree that this energy revolution hoax has risen slightly above the field. There will be a few damaged reputations of apparently respectable scientists involved here, which most hoaxes don't accomplish. But until Rossi rolls out a product, or vastly more and better evidence comes in that he is able to, I don't see anything particularly interesting or unusual here.

This is a long post, so if you want to respond I suggest you do it in a different post for each point. Up to you, of course; I just hate following three parallel conversations in a single reply thread.

[aNYCguy]

I forgot to ping you to my post 78.

[longtermmemmory]

just getting a patent is meaningless.

the patent office has multiple perpetual motion machines and other inventions that simply do not work.