Posted on 02/08/2011 7:53:40 AM PST by SeekAndFind
A recent WSJ article profiled a Columbia, Ohio doctor facing a whopping $500,000 in student loans -- the result of deferred payments and accumulated charges. While the doctor's debt burden may be extreme, more U.S. college students are borrowing larger amounts to pay for surging tuition costs.
Rising debt is one key reason why our guest James Altucher, a hedge-fund manager and author, argues: Don't send your kids to college!
"There's a lot of evidence to suggest that motivated kids are going to make money whether or not they go to college," says Altucher, managing partner at Formula Capital. "So teach your kids how to be motivated. Teach your kids how to sell a product, build a network of connections. That's going to be far more valuable."
He notes for some people, it might be more enriching and productive to go to college later in life.
The case for college. Altucher adds the case for college largely is based on an assumption: a degree = a higher paying job. "Everyone who's hiring you has a college degree and that's a way they perpetuate the scam," Altucher tells Aaron in the accompanying clip. (Of course there are notable college dropouts, including Bill Gates, Steve Jobs and Mark Zuckerberg.) To be sure, college grads typically get higher paying jobs and are expected to earn $800,000 more over the course of a lifetime vs. workers who didn't go to college, according to CollegeBoard.
100K for a degree: But with four years of college costing $104,000 on average (including books and tuition) and the average college student graduating with $23,000 in debt, Altucher argues it's time to rethink the value of four years of higher education, especially right after high school.
(Excerpt) Read more at finance.yahoo.com ...
That's so wrong.
Anything done in the name of "education" must have as many dollars as possible thrown at it.
To do otherwise would be racist.
A Doctor accumulating $500K in student loans, is capable of repaying those loans. It will be hard; but with a MD starting out in the $100K+ range; and no real top-end - it will be hard, but it can be done.
On the other hand, I know a (very immature and unwise) young man who chose to go into Theatre as his degree, and he owne $125K in student loans. He’s not particularily talented - and has really had lots of fun in school (if it’s fun, who cares what it costs, right?).
So, this idiot has really no chance of ever paying off his student loans - and even a bankrupcy won’t forgive the debt he has foolishly created. Stupidity should be painful; unfortunately the pain doesn’t start until after the damage has been done.
I think a good college education works well but the question is how to pay for it. I honestly believe the military is an excellent place to start life, get a college education paid for, and gain significant experience. It is not for everybody but there are other alternatives such as federal service that does the same. Of course, I am not for mandatory government service nor do I like the fact that the fed/mil is a primary alternative, but that is reality right now.
Join the Navy or Air Force, learn some skills, and get the GI bill which is pretty good now. That is what I had to do. Don’t spend your money on booze, buy a used car for transportation, and join the active Reserves for spending money.
I knew when I went to College in the early 90s that most folks there were wasting their time and money (or more accurately their parents) they had no business being there. They didn’t know what they wanted to do, or study, and just picked the easiest things and really were a distraction at best to those of who knew exactly why we were there. They were simply there because it was “what you do”, not because they particularly wanted to study something in particular or even expand their education.
I got out of school with about 20k in debt and started working for a little shy of double that... now that same college for 4 years for my same degree will set you back 60-80k and you will not get a job for the low end of that amount let alone the high end.
There are still affordable schools out there, mostly private that don’t take federal funds, like Grove City College etc. However, I would not hesitate to recommend trade schools to young people.. especially real trades like HVAC, Auto Repair, etc. Won’t cost you nearly as much, and the jobs can’t be outsourced, not to mention the path to self employment is far simpler.
I believe I heard Jesse Jackson say the same thing before :)
Learn a trade!
The Military.
If you choose a non-military type pos you will do just as well as college as long as you seek profession certifications while or soon after leaving the military.
The Navy gives fine experience.
You can go to an India University for 4 years for 4900 a year including the food and lodging. These overseas degrees are good enough for Fortune 500 companies so this is a worth while investment.
In the US, India/China/Philippine Graduates are getting comparable salaries. Please note, these are all taught in English which is considered the universal global professional language.
for years, i use to teach people in unrelated fields how to get into the tech sector. from testers, graphic artists, web developers, to actual developers. then bjclinton pushed thru the H1b visa bill, with L3s simultaneously increasing, and that was it. since then, it’s been down hill for anyone trying to get into the field, at least if you’re from the US.
today, the majority of the tech firms look for indian workers for a few reasons. most often, i find indian managers ‘just happen to favor’ indian workers. the other angle is that indians are cheaper.
the fact of the matter is, indians are not the cheapest, nor the best, of foreign born tech workers. but there sure it a lot of them. no doubt. a country with almost 1 billion people will easily be able to fill the needs of the US tech sector, which, prior to the H1b bill, only had about 5 million people in it.
for those that don’t know the numbers, you can get tech workers as low as $250/month (we averaged $500-1000/mon), if you have an overseas operation. if you must have them here, you can bring that up to $1000-2000/mon, if you have the housing. by comparison, junior American devs will run about $4,000-5,000/mon ($45,000-60,000/yr). senior devs will range from $8,000-14,000+ ($90,000-150,000/yr + depending on region)
is any of that good for America? hell no. but good luck getting a congress critter to understand that. i’ve even tried explaining that without a vibrant American tech sector, the DoD won’t have quality tech workers to pull from... which is an obvious hit to national security. yea, they didn’t care.
as for strapping your kid with $200,000-500,000 worth of college debt, that’s laughable. it places your kid of out the competition for jobs that the government is bringing in foreigners to fill. don’t think so?
imagine your kid, having graduated from some above average school with above average grades... that puts him/her in the top 10% of candidates, let’s say. your kid has no experience, just a degree and $500,000 worth of debt. even on the friendliest terms, that’d increase your kids salary requirements by $30,000/yr.
sitting next to your kid is an equally inexperienced kid from some third world country (though never northern/eastern europe, surprisingly /sarc). the other kid has an accent, but otherwise matches your kid. major difference is that the foreign kid is willing to work for peanuts ($10,000-40,000/yr) while living in a group house provided by some body shop, where your kid could not even pay their school debt on such a salary, let alone live a ‘normal’ single persons life in America.
who gets the job? obviously, most employers go for the foreign born kid and your kid, thinking there are always other jobs, walks down the street looking for the next gig. within 6 months, your kid finds him/herself applying to starbucks for the insurance package, and its over. having never been able to get the entry level gig, and now in a just above minimum wage job, your kid won’t be able to move out of that position without lots of serious help.
i have seen this repeated countless times. i’ve tried to explain to the congress critters how this works. and they just yawn, and have been yawning, for the last 10+ years.
politically, we are educating and exporting those fields to third world countries. over time, America no longer holds the edge in whatever field was exported. and as time goes forward, new products will no longer come from America, but from those third world countries... as the next gen products come from todays juniors.
i could rant longer, but i’ll stop here. it angers me... a lot. i was the owner of a 12 yr old american software company. my congress critter’s office suggested twice, TWICE, that i should move my operations overseas. well, 2 weeks ago after dragging my feet since joe-the-plumber... i shuttered it. this angers me. and now we see how American corporations HAVE TO share their profits with others. yea, i’m right on that. i spent 20+ years working my butt off just to give it away to slack ass union crack heads. i don’t think so. my company will re-emerge as an international version of itself, and it’s done. am i happy about that? hell no. but i’ll be damned if other people will get more out of the hard work of my lifetime then me or my family.
I worked summers to earn my college tuition + book money. Was even able to afford to buy a car. Of course, that was back when America still had jobs!
Got a break on tuition as well by going to a state school. Tuition was $450.00 per semester, full time.
After graduation, got a job with the university which subsidized my graduate education (albeit part-time).
Finally, went into the military and used my GI benefits (Vietnam era) to partially pay for my doctorate!
That is the best strategy for someone without means. Also helps to pick a career with a future!
Smaller Canadian universities the price will be half or even less, pretty much same degree. As long as kid works partime while in school and gets a useful degree it is worth it
Usually good advice, not so helpful today. Check it out. I mean talk to those in skilled trades outside of DC Metro.
The Hindus have a fierce ex-patriotism that’s true. When Americans take the same tact with regard fellow citizens we are called xenophobes. And I like Hindus! I have worked with them and helped them out since 1976 and will continue to do so. But when I hire, I will give Americans first cut.
After those four years, the high school graduate will be in better position to know what he/she wants to do in life and make a better informed decision regarding higher education. Those that choose to continue their education will also be much better motivated in my opinion, having had a chance to experience the real world.
I home-schooled my kids, so we tend to be nonconformists about education anyway, but...
I have been after my middle daughter for years to get her degree. She refuses. At this point she is one promotion away from being a V.P. for Fedex.
I think that at her professional level, her ability to change jobs and a bit of a social sigma are problems with her only having a high school diploma (and a home schooled one at that), but it isn’t holding her back at work at all. She even has a couple of divisions fighting over her right now.
I think that the whole nature of college is changing with Internet options.
We will see what comes of it, but I do believe that higher education will look different in the coming years.
You are overestimating the value of modern US college and underestimating its cost. A typical student leaving a US college today is saddled with a lifetime STD, immersion training in immorality and amorality, Marxism, and rebellion against decency and tradition. And about $40K on average in student debt which can not be extinguished in bankruptcy.
And what does the student have in real education? Too many have unlearned basics and have taken on instead PC delusions. Those that succeed in the face of the burning furnace of deliberate moral debasement (e.g. coed rooms), social chaos and delusional indoctrinations end with grade point averages that are the same as others far less able because EVERY student’s grades are hyper-inflated, yet inflation over 4.0 is impossible. So all the grades stack up at the top.
It’s more likely that the college system will have either broken or forced out early the true honest and moral intellect.
Not only that but where will we be taught how when what to think?
Simple solution, student loans should be dischargable in bankruptcy.
Students can’t find jobs? no money for diploma mills.
Junk diplomas exist on the backs of taxpayers.
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