A Gentlemen's Agreement at the White House

blogs.nytimes.com ^ | December 7, 2010 | Adam Goodheart

[dr_who]

Washington, Dec. 8, 1860

Library of CongressGate and north portico of the White House, circa 1859-61

Five Southern gentlemen came calling, anxious to speak with the president of what was, as far as they were concerned, on the brink of becoming a foreign country. For the moment, they all remained American citizens – and members of Congress, no less. But that was a mere technicality. As they strode up the steps to James Buchanan’s second-floor office, they carried themselves with a dignity befitting the founding fathers of a new nation: the independent Republic of South Carolina.

The Carolinians’ mission that Saturday was to ensure that the transition to independence would happen as smoothly and amicably as possible. There was no reason it should be otherwise. In little more than a week, the state’s elected representatives would gather in Columbia to formally sever its connection with the United States. It would then remain simply to arrange fair terms by which the assets and responsibilities of one government should be transferred to the other. Not a single drop of American blood need be shed.

[dr_who]

Interesting that this was originally posted on December 7th, although it's topical today as well, given who Republicans are negotiating with.

[ClearCase_guy]

This issue has been beaten to death here. I will only say that in 1860, there were no clear laws on secession. Because the Constitution contains no language on the subject, it appears to me that the federal government has virtually no role in the process of secession. And because the 10th Amendment cites the idea that those powers not held by the federal government are then held by the states, I have to conclude that the power of secession is something reserved to each state government, upon a vote of the People of that state (and from whom all just powers proceed).

SC was right. Lincoln was wrong.

[Verginius Rufus]

Buchanan is perhaps Obama's leading rival for the title of "worst President in U.S. history." If Buchanan's image is improved, then Obama has no rival.

James Buchanan, like Jefferson Davis, had a long and distinguished earlier career before being elected President. Both might be considered prime examples of "the Peter Principle" (people who keep getting promoted because they do well, until they reach a position which they are not competent to fill). Of course Obama is not an example, since he kept getting promoted without any accomplishments (Harvard Law Review "president," Illinois legislature, US Senate).

[SoftwareEngineer]

I RESPECTFULLY disagree with you and EVERYONE over here who has advocated the position of the South. EVER!

Our Declaration of Independence (which ALL 13 states signed) clearly said “All men are created equal”

It was our original constitution that denied the right of votes to blacks that was in violation of the the declaratioin we OURSELVES had made.

Anything the South EVER said was bogus as it was NOT the view of its populace. It was only the views of the whites (and landowners at that).

If the South had allowed every man to vote and THEN decided to secede, I would be the single BIGGEST supporter of secession.

But instead, they denied the rights of the blacks and a fraction of the populace made the decision for others! Bull hockey! All slave owners can burn in Hell for all I care.

This is the same as I feel for abortion when someone else makes a decision for the unborn child.

ONLY GOD owns us. NOT Humans! Ever!

Sorry for the hard post but I have no sympathy for the South. They did not represent their people. Thus they were not true republics.

[ladyjane]

Anything the South EVER said was bogus as it was NOT the view of its populace. It was only the views of the whites (and landowners at that).

All slave owners can burn in Hell for all I care.

You sound very angry. You are aware, aren't you, that there were thousands of slave owners who were black. There were slave breeders who were black and who sold their own children into slavery. They should burn in hell too?

[SoftwareEngineer]

Yes.. all slave owners.. black or white.. Jewish or Christian or Hindu or Muslim (who owned slaves till late last century) ought to burn in Hell....

Only God owns us... Jesus loves us... and we belong to Him.. NO ONE ELSE

Slavery was a WORLDWIDE phenomenon. Blacks, Whites, Browns, Yellows, Greens all owned slaves....

.. and I have sympathy for NONE of them...

[SoftwareEngineer]

To our Jewish, Sikh and Hindu brothers.. I said Jesus.. but not trying to impose religion...

God is our master....However you worship Him...

No religious slight was intended....

[ladyjane]

Yes.. all slave owners.. black or white.. Jewish or Christian or Hindu or Muslim (who owned slaves till late last century) ought to burn in Hell....

Why only the last century? What about all the slave owners in the Middle East today?

p.s. You are aware, aren't you, that some blacks in the south petitioned to go back into slavery to be taken care of.

[stainlessbanner]

Dixie ping

[SoftwareEngineer]

LadyJane,

I have no sympathy for Slave owners. Just so that I am clear. I am NOT black.

Still, I find slavery offensive. In all forms. By ALL people. It is against God....It is against Humans....

I fully realize that people of all religions and all races had slaves.... and I loathe them all.

Every slave owner that looked a slave in the eye.. when the slave was asking for his freedom.. and denied him.. is culpable....

I don’t for a minute buy this Bull Hockey that people in the 19th century had different values. Many of the slaves spoke English. They would plead for their freedom to the slave owners. The slave owners knew what the slaves wanted.. and yet they denied them.

They are no better than abortonists, murderers, rapists....

Any slave owner of any religion or any race or any nationality... is a pawn of Satan...

This includes white slavers today.. who trade young women from the Eastern Bloc

Sorry for the harsh language.. but slavery and abortion.. are hot topics for me as they both represent an ownership of another human being.. that is only the province of God...

[lentulusgracchus]

Still, I find slavery offensive. In all forms. By ALL people. It is against God....

That's not what the Old Testament said. And Jesus never commanded his followers to discharge their bondservants forthwith, which He would have done repeatedly, if what you say had ever been true.

We abolished slavery, not God. Think about that, before you mount a high horse. Abolition is a man-made value, with all that that implies. It can never be "up there" with the Ten Commandments.

I hope we never see it again in the US, and I'm glad the US Government campaigns against it where it is reappearing. Slavery is a big, fat headache for any value theory of labor, and it tends, when it thrives, to reduce all wages to hand-to-mouth (look at China and their prison labor system).

But emancipation, while I may think it is a good deed, is still not a divine ordinance.

[GRRRRR]

George Washington owned slaves, freed upon his death if I remember correctly.

[Mind-numbed Robot]

You do know, don’t you SWEngineer, that women could not vote until long after the founding and after the Civil War and well into the early 20th Century? Does that mean they were no better than slaves? That there were also slaves and slave holders in the North? Which country led the way in overturning the tradition of slavery? Why rail at history? It was what it was and can’t be undone.

Get over yourself and your self-rightousness.

[mewzilla]

Speaking of secession, interesting take on the subject here...

Secession - A Peculiar Concept

[SoftwareEngineer]

I am not self righteous. I am a sinner.. no different than you or any one else...

The only exception is..today.. most of us accept we are sinning when we do...

However...we pretend.. that Slave Owners.. were Christians.. who followed the Bible and were non Sinners...

They were Sinners.. no doubt.. and non repentant ones..

Hurting another human being (or even a dog) requires a heart of stone....

I was in Amsterdam.. and saw the house that Anne Frank lived in... she was but one of millions.. and you see the sadness in her heart...

Now imagine that sadness across countless billions across the globe..

The US was not the only one.. heck we are SMALL in the grand scheme of slavery... we are but children...

Arabs were the kings of slavery...

For me.. it remains.. a horrific chapter in our extended history.

That and this legalized abortion...

[Mind-numbed Robot]

http://econfaculty.gmu.edu/wew/articles/10/MoralOrImmoralGovernment

I recommend this recent column by Dr. Walter E. Williams for your consideration.

Oops, sorry I lost the linky. It is titled Moral or Immoral Government and it deals with the ownership of private property and considers ones body as private property. It speaks directly to this question.

[ROCKLOBSTER]

Anything the South EVER said was bogus as it was NOT the view of its populace. It was only the views of the whites

Actually it was the views of Southern democrats.

there were thousands of slave owners who were black. There were slave breeders who were black and who sold their own children into slavery.

Well, they were democrats too, just like Jesse Jackass and Al Sharpton.

some blacks in the south petitioned to go back into slavery to be taken care of.

Yup, once again...typical entitlement democrats.

If you want to get PO'd at someone over slavery, it should be democrats...and, of course, moslems.

[SoftwareEngineer]

Very good article. I appreciate it my friend!

I do agree with the thesis that we own our own bodies.

However, to be very clear, in case someone uses this to support Abortion, the child’s body is NOT your own, even if it resides in your body.

Thanks!

[Mind-numbed Robot]

I am in complete agreement with you about abortion. It is the murder of the most innocent, the unborn. It is something that is in the present and should be resisted with all our might.

I recommend that you redirect your energy from past slavery, it clouds your view on the subject of U.S. history, and redirect it to the present battle against those who would enslave us all - the Marxists and the Muslims. That is a true present-day battle between good and evil.

They are the ones who are aggressively destroying our society. The Marxist have been at it since the late 1800’s and the Islamists in cahoots with them for about 50. They are the ones trying to remove Jesus and Christianity from our society. They are the ones pushing abortion and the denigration of the individual.

Fight them, not the Confederacy.

[chesley]

p.s. You are aware, aren't you, that some blacks in the south petitioned to go back into slavery to be taken care of.

And what they continue to do today, although they do not seem to realize it.