Microsoft got Kinect technology since "Apple is a pain in the ass"

Techspot ^ | 6 November 2010 | Emil Protalinski

[Erik Latranyi]

Back in June 2008, PrimeSense was looking to sell the technology that would eventually be engineered into what we now know as Xbox Kinect. The first company in Silicon Valley that PrimeSense CEO, Inon Beracha tried to demonstrate the sensor that powers Kinect to was none other than Apple.

The technology had been developed by engineers in the Israeli military.

When asked about why he thought of Apple first, Beracha told Cult of Mac that "It was the most natural place for the technology." The negotiations didn't go so well.

Beracha figured the technology was so good that he would be able to sell it to anyone. In the end, it came down to "Apple is a pain in the ass," Beracha reportedly said with a smile on his face.

[Swordmaker]

I don't think it was just secrecy and NDAs that turned off the negotiations with Apple. I think they just weren't interested enough to pay a lot for it. Here's my take on it:

There is another consideration as well. This involves technologies and disclosures of those technologies, perhaps on both sides. I would be very surprised if Apple engineers were not also working on similar tech. In fact I recall seeing demos of images of silhouettes of kids dancing on Mac screens mirroring kids dancing in front of said Macs years ago. Apple would want to protect themselves against a future patent infringement lawsuit from this company if and when their own independently developed products are released... A properly written NDA outlining current products, signed by both parties, regardless of the outcome of the acquisition talks would prevent that.

[conservatism_IS_compassion]

That's an ad hominem in it own right, if it comes to that.

If you're worried that someone might hit the abuse button, I confess. I did it. Most reluctantly, but I did do it.

Because posts of this sort tend to degrade the readability of FR, and cannot enhance its attractiveness to its target audience. After all, we all hope that our posts will be read, or there wouldn't be much point to registering to post. So all heat, no light posts foul our own nest.

Those of us who look forward to Swordmaker's pings are enthusiasts for useful, easy-to-use personal digital devices. I myself own a Mac and, and my wife has an iPod to listen to Rush with. Swordmaker, so far as I can assess his qualifications and qualities, has a lot more knowledge about my system than I do, and so I learn from him. If he's wrong about something that causes me to have trouble, that is on me because of my own limitations. But he has responded to challenges before to my satisfaction, and to the extent that technical challenges have come from people who want to believe that cheaper computers are a better buy than Macs, that has had some utility.

But what serves no obvious useful purpose is challenges which are quite literally nothing but ad hominems, not even directly related to tech/human factors issues. And I wish that were more obvious to the Mods than it seems to be.

Be that as it may, this is JimRob's house, and he is actually the only one who has "freedom of speech" within it. The rest of us are guests, and what goes and does not go is, absolutely and without qualification, his call. As implemented by the mods.

[Swordmaker]

He was threatening ME pal, go take a look. I am not responsible for what someone else wrote............

I was NOT threatening you; I was warning you about the known consequences of flame war activities on FR, and telling you who laid down the law. I don't have any power here on FR. Only the moderators and Jim have power. I don't make threats I can't follow through on.

Jim stated quite plainly that if you don't like Apple products, simply don't buy them. . . and refrain from insulting people who do. Very simple.

A phrase like "precious toys" is an implied insult and calling Apple users "Apple cultists" is a direct insult, and you intended it to be so. Quit being upset when others are offended and they call you on it when you call them names. . . . you just got caught being rude.

[newheart]

Most companies in the process of negotiating an acquisition require non-disclosure agreements, until both companies agree to disclose. It is standard business practice to avoid the run up (or devaluation) of the value of the either’s stock. The CEO of Kinectic is wrong to think it was not a normal practice. . . or to have gotten his nose out of joint at the requirement.

Amen. Business Acumen 101.

[Scutter]

Yeah, except I’m pretty sure that guy on the right isn’t bashing macs.

[ReignOfError]

This technology has much more potential than just a game controller. In fact, it could have as much general use potential as the IR remote control.

How useful it gets will depend on how well its gesture detection can be fine-tuned. I can see something like walking into a room and gesturing to turn the lights on (or making them brighter or dimmer).

In its current form, the gestures are too broad to be very ergonomic or to have a large vocabulary of gestures. Something like an iDevice with accelerometers and gyroscopes is a better solution for something like a remote control. Or better still, something like this magic wand remote control.

I can see potential as an assistive technology for people with gross motor function but not enough fine motor control to work a pointer -- Parkinson's, say. With a fine enough focus, it could even interpret sign language.

[Leo Farnsworth]

“I am so sick and tired of you thugs who come in to our Apple threads and do nothing but insult us...”

Uh, It's not an Apple thread so far as I can tell - it wasn't posted by Swordmaker. In fact it's more of a Microsoft thread.

It's a post where a businessman calls Apple a pain in the ass.

Live with it.

[Leo Farnsworth]

First you did not know of this thread until I pinged you..

Second, we were not attacking you - just analyzing your psyche.

We also predicted that you would spin this some way pro Apple.

All 100% true.

If you don't WANT me to keep you apprised of pertinent Apple information, just let me know...

[LearnsFromMistakes]

Second, we were not attacking you - just analyzing your psyche.

That is hilarious. 'I wasn't smacking you around, just wanted to check out your pain threshold'.

[antiRepublicrat]

From all accounts I’ve heard, Apple is a pain in the ass. Normally this results in pretty good products, but apparently it backfires sometimes.

[tacticalogic]

In fact, Mac hardware is nothing more than a slightly more advanced version of ‘normal’ PC hardware (EFI, Firewire 800 etc.).

It's a specific subset of the hardware available in a "normal" PC, but there isn't anything there that isn't available for that "normal" PC.

[CJ Wolf]

I got one for my sons birthday last week. He has gone from slouching on the couch to full on activity nonstop. He complains that he is sore from it.

I’m one of those awestruck people. It’s really incredible and I’m not one to be normally wowed by new tech.

Some notes:
1. Bill Gates may very well have solved Americas “obesity problem” with this.
2. A 5 year old girl can now play games on the Xbox it’s that easy and intuitive.
3. The world isn’t ready for this kind of technology.

Boxing is amazing, as is table tennis. (good old pong)
Star wars I hear is coming out, but fencing would be cool too.

[Eye of Unk]

I am stuck here in Alaska being seasonally laid off until spring, its something I make plans for every year.

So here I am a 53 year old guy that is a master mechanic and a concrete mixer driver, but even the last two weeks of me just sitting in my recliner day after day I can already feel the softness settling in, I feel like sleeping more.

I have a pretty good sized man cave, I have the 360 with a 57” Toshiba DLP widescreen, the ceiling is over 10’ in the middle of the room. I would really love to have some form of karate or martial arts game, boxing will do, maybe kickboxing would be a decent workout.

What I would really love is some form of swordplay, fencing or even at the far end a jousting competition. Being that the individual Kinect console is sold out up here and my only choice right now is buying the newer 360 kinda makes me hesitate, but I might anyway. My 360 is an older unit but its still running, it may be just waiting to be driven harder and then it will croak like the many before it.

I have two teens, and two younger children, it might not be a bad idea anyway to buy it for the family. I’m kinda surprised more people are not paranoid about its facial mapping software sending that information to Microsoft, it is possible.....A Minority Report in the beginning here?

[antiRepublicrat]

Just adding some facts...

Saying there was “no need” for Direct3D and that Microsoft had to “foist” it on developers is nothing more than a lie. OpenGL and Direct3D were more-or-less developed at the same time in order to take advantage of different types of hardware coming out at the time

They were both developed to give one consistent programming interface to wildly varying hardware. Prior to these, software had to be written to each individual 3D card. SGI created IRIS GL in the late 80s for this purpose, and in 1992 published a re-worked, non-proprietary version as OpenGL. Direct 3D started with a company founded in 1992 and was bought by Microsoft in 1995.

OpenGL is no more supported on OSX or Linux than it is on Windows.

OpenGL is THE 3D graphics subsystem of OSX. Note "OpenGL" in the Application Services area.

[Erik Latranyi]

Bill Gates may very well have solved Americas “obesity problem” with this.

Then again, I can imagine liberals complaining that because Kinect allows users to change channels via voice command, it will cause couch potatoes' fingers to get fat.

[CJ Wolf]

I have an older 360 and it works great with it.

They do need more games but they will come. I’d love to fence or joust.

[Swordmaker]

First you did not know of this thread until I pinged you..

Firstly, Leo, only I knew of the YOUR article when you pinged me to it. Thank you for that. I did not post it because I thought the issue was twaddle. I am a businessman and have been in such negotiations and KNOW that you require such NDAs when you are talking about mergers, acquisitions, or anything that can have a major impact on the valuations of the companies involved. I thought it wasn't worth posting.

I saw the article when it was first published several days ago and thought "what a dolt. Beracha just destroyed any possibility of ever his being considered for another CEO position." I also did not think it was worth posting as news because it was just a "sour grapes" article by know nothings. However, since you posted it, I went ahead and pinged the list.

Second, analyzing my psyche, in absentia IS ATTACKING ME, an ad hominem... especially when your conclusions are completely denigrating and insulting. There is a prominent Apple troll who disappeared from FreeRepublic in the last day or two, possibly permanently, just for that kind of activity. No threat... I had nothing to do with it... just a word of warning. JimRob apparently finally had enough. I don't mind you posting articles of interest to the Mac/Apple Ping list members... but don't do me any favors if you are going to do it to "analyze my psyche," especially since you could not be more wrong.

Thirdly, my "spin" has nothing to do with being "pro Apple" in this instance. Apple does some stupid things... but always in their interest. This is the way things are done in BUSINESS... not just Apple.

Returning to my first point, businesses in negotiations for the take-over, acquisitions, mergers, or even licensing of technology, DO REQUIRE Non-disclosure Agreements, especially when the discussions involve technologies that are not public knowledge, before discussions are started. Their legal departments REQUIRE it... and they can't even open discussions about WHAT they each bring to the table without them. That is simply a fact. There is no spin here... only a business ignorant, technically oriented CEO at Kinectic... and business ignorant journalists. The SPIN is from them... not from me.

I ask you, who is considered the number 1 CEO in the world today by most of the major business analysts? The answer is Steve Jobs... not PrimeSense's Inon Beracha, who never got to square one because he refused to sign the required and normal NDA. I suggest that Jobs' method of initiating negotiations about acquiring another company, based on 30 years of doing so trumps Inon Beracha's single time experience. Beracha is an amateur, who, the facts now show, can't keep his big mouth shut. Jobs has acquired dozens... and each and every time has required NDAs.

[dayglored]

> I did not post it because I thought the issue was twaddle... it was just a "sour grapes" article by know nothings.

Agreed, but with one other observation.

I would bet a good dinner out, that the comment about Apple being a "pain in the ass" had two motivations:

1. Apple's name guarantees press coverage.

   If Apple's name wasn't in the headline, the business tech press would have largely ignored this item, relegating it to second or even third-tier story placement. Beracha wanted notoriety, and got it, by leveraging APPLE's name instead of his own or even Microsoft's. What a crappy, sleazy way to get headlines. Works, though.

2. Microsoft encouraged Beracha to shoot off his mouth.

   Microsoft knows that Apple gets headlines (see #1), and is a lot smarter than Beracha, used him, and threw him aside like a wad of tissues after an afternoon tryst in a cheap motel. All to get airplay for their new toy.

Frankly, while I agree with you on the naivete and inexperience aspects, I'm more astonished and grossed out by the sleaziness of it.

Eewww. I want a shower... these kinds of people disgust me. :)

[Constitution Day]

One wonders if you receive your free "Steve Jobs Edition" black turtleneck by ordering a 2 year subscription of Mac Cult magazine? Hmmm... Now there's an idea that could actually make Apple some cash but would make the Apple Cult look like idiots in the process.

Ha!! Thanks for the laugh, that is rich.