Thoughts on a good carry gun (caliber, make) and holster type.

Vanity | 8/13/10 | Me

[Pessimist]

Hey All!

Seems like a bit of a slow news day, so I thought I'd crank out my first vanity.

I've been shooting for a couple of years now (since around October of '08 - go figure) and I'm looking at getting my CCW. I'd like some opinions of caliber / make and also holster options and ramifications.

[Little Bill]

Just the man I was looking for. My pal RaceBannon, one of your Ilk, just purchased a Ruger .45 auto, nice gun. We were talking about bullet weights and velocities.

I am a wheel gun fan, .357, but he has a .45. We ran across a deal on 185 Gr hollow points in .45, to me a deal. The problem I have, I qualified on the 45 in the Army, is how it effects how the gun is shot in a situation where you have to have to fire more than one round.

[mylife]

http://www.natchezss.com/product.cfm?contentID=productDetail&prodID=FAPD412JG000&src=sim

[67 LandRover]

I carry a Sig P220 (.45) in a Milt Sparks holster, I would also recommend the P239 in either .40 or .357 Sig as it is not full sized and may be more concealable in summer.

By the way Milt Sparks has a six month lead time so order early!

[HuntsvilleTxVeteran]

Kangaroo holster with KelTec /380 in summer time, no jacket.
Belly band with Kimber .45 in winter.

[ExSoldier]

You must like to read. A LOT.

Speaking as an NRA Instructor with 21+ years of experience; as a former Law Enforcement Officer and as a former US Army Infantry Captain, I’ll give you some feedback and you can take it or leave it.

First off, I won’t even join a thread like this. You are going to get a ton of uninformed abeit will meaning replies.

Choosing a firearm is a lot like choosing a mate. Ya sorta gotta TOUCH them before you make a decision! So whatever advice you get, go to a gun show and FIND that exact model firearm and handle it! Trust me when you find THE ONE (not our Prez!) you’ll know it as surely as the Boy King drew Excalibur from the stone! You’re looking for that ineffable “feel” in your hand. How does it balance? Does it “point” naturally? Lay your finger along side the frame and POINT. Do you get the feeling that the barrel is aligned with your finger so that if you pulled the trigger the bullet would go near the point of your finger?

So I’ll tell you what to absolutely avoid and a reason for that. Side by side or over/under shotgun: TWO SHOTS and very slow to reload under pressure.

Any PUMP action shotgun. Under extreme pressure, too easy to “SHORT STROKE” the reload in order to fire the second round. This means that there is a failure to bring the pump forcefully to the bottom of it’s cycle and then start back up to chamber the round. This results in a double feed jam and can only be cleared by a detail strip of the weapon (usually a gunsmith job) difficult to stay alive under these circumstances.

Here is what I recommend to paying clients (no charge to freepers like you) in the way of defensive firearms. All the way from handgun to shotgun to assault rifle.

I recommend to my clients (I just finished a “consulting” job in south Miami Dade for a guy who specializes in kidnap insurance in Latin America) a good semi auto with extended tube. Either the Benelli M2 or M4 or a tactical version of the Remington 1100 12 ga:

http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/shotguns/model_1100/model_1100_tactical.asp

Semi auto pistol is something that is reliable after firing an extended number of rounds without lubrication or cleaning and that lets out the majority of guns — including the venerable 1911A1 Colt Government model. I can only suggest three brands: H&K, Glock and Sig Sauer. Caliber choice depends on your level of expertise, but I suggest either a 9mm or a 45acp. REMEMBER, bullet size does NOT "end the fight." Only shot placement does that! That's why both the British SAS and the FBI's famed Hostage Rescue Team used the Browning Hi-Power for a good many years. The SAS stuck with the 9mm and simply segued to the newer and proven Sig P226 while the FBI is still futzing around with calibers and makers. Not sure what they're currently using. Last I heard it was a Les Bauer custom 1911.

NOT the 40 because it offers a vicious barrel whip that will induce FLINCH and quikly start degrading accuracy. That’s what wins a gunfight, you know. ACCURACY under stress. Not caliber. 9mm is as small as I ever recommend and 45 is as big. I have used both. I do recommend that you use a DA first shot. Not a shot from the cocked and locked mode like you find on a 1911 Gov’t model. It’s waaaay too easy to trip off the shot without being CERTAIN you’re on target. You also have to remember to wipe off the safety and that’s tough under life and death circumstances, especially as you age.

I carried a 1911 for 20 years both in the army and places I can’t tell you about. But it was in a stupid IDPA ( I recommend you join: http://www.idpa.com) match several years ago that I lost precious time because my muscle memory failed me and I failed to wipe the safety off. If it had been real, I’d have been dead. Now I know that MUSCLE MEMORY isn't unlimited. I went to a gun that didn't require that step for a very long time. However, recently the 1911 bug once again chomped on me and I decided it was simply time to REFRESH my "muscle memory." That just requires some practice. So, while I'm saving for the purchase of a new Sig Sauer C3, I'm doing exactly that. I'm practicing with IDPA and I'm carrying a 1911 once again to reinforce the need to keep a good mindset as a precursor to muscle memory. FOCUS is the key.

A revolver should be something you can hit with. Either from a range of 6 to 10 FEET from the hip (two handed grip, elbows locked into your sides) at rapid unaimed fire. OR at a greater range of 21 feet using the sights. 38sp or 357 magnum only unless you opt for the Taurus “JUDGE” with the 410 shotgun and 45 Colt caliber. I just bought one of those for trips out of town. It’s a specialty gun for anti carjacking that I bought for my wife. Otherwise, I have everything I need. But certainly NOT everything I want!!! In a short barrel (3” or less) best to go with 38+P rather than 357 because the magnum will degrade in velocity so as to be less than optimal.

Assault Rifles:

STAY AWAY from the AK47 family in 7.62x39 cal. Yeah, it’s an awesome assault rifle. Designed to be cleaned in a muddy creek, shook dry and resumed firing by some little illiterate commie drone. The problem is the ammo. There are damned few makers in this country. Most is WARSAW PACT surplus and can be choked off much more easily.

You want to stay with a caliber that your own military and police forces use. That means NATO compliant. 5.56x45 and 7.62 x51 IOW 223 and 308 Winchester. I own an M1 Garand because the hunting aspect of the caliber makes it easy to come by everywhere and there are some specialty angles that are available to that round that are still LEGAL and decidedly not so to the other calibers. Remember the 30-06 was a US military round since the early 1900s. So it is still legal and possible to get ammo that is AP, API and most desirable of all APIT: Armor Piercing, Armor Piercing Incindiary and Armor Piercing Incindiary Tracer. Great for work on engine blocks and gas tanks. Plus the Garand is a very good (not perfect) battle rifle and of course if you run out of ammo there is that bayonet and club aspects available. It’s heavy but I don’t expect to hump it in any more jungle jaunts.

Stay with the AR platform because of it’s ease of maintenance, accuracy and caliber symbiosis. lol. Remember something else, you’ve got to have the WILL to win no matter how bad it all looks. You’ve got to have the soul and mindset of a sheepdog:

http://www.gleamingedge.com/mirrors/onsheepwolvesandsheepdogs.html

[ExSoldier]

I'm sorry, I meant this to be a PRIVATE reply, please don't get offended those of you who did post publicly. It was not meant to be posted here.

[wtc911]

STAY AWAY from the AK47 family in 7.62x39 cal. Yeah, it’s an awesome assault rifle. Designed to be cleaned in a muddy creek, shook dry and resumed firing by some little illiterate commie drone. The problem is the ammo. There are damned few makers in this country. Most is WARSAW PACT surplus and can be choked off much more easily.

_____________________________

Saiga makes a "sport" version of the AK in .223. It's the best of both worlds.

[ExSoldier]

My advice stands on a platform for the .223. The ONLY reason I'd go with the AK is for the 7.62x39 ammo and that famed Ak reliability. But again, the ammo is too easily choked off.

[Gilbo_3]

hope yer server doesnt melt with the poopstorm thisll open...

[Gorzaloon]

I have low caliber weapons for the range that I love to shoot a lot and it definitely is cheaper.

I was referring to being in a situation where you need to use it outside a range...my view is that a larger caliber is better than smaller in that situation.

Like anything else, it's a compromise, like the old saying that the .380 you have is better than the .50 Desert Eagle or the 1911A1 in the trunk.

Where I live, if one ends up in the Dark Place, there had better be powder burns, and the magazine should be emptied, as is appropriate for a crime victim in Mortal Fear. Were I to put one shot in a perp's forehead, and have 6 or 7 rounds left, you just know the Liberal DA would call it a vigilante execution.

Were I to do this with a Hydrashock laden .45 the ME would be mad, and I'd probably have to pay to have the resulting mess shovelled up...hahahaa.

Yes, I agree a bigger caliber is better, of course. I doubt anyone would dispute that, if for no otherr reason than the BIG HOLE at the end of the barrel and its intimidation factor. Perhaps if I were larger framed I could carry the CCCMKIV for more hours without feeling I was trying to hide a 105 Howitzer. Cops look at me funny when I walk, and they are very clued-in about the "Shoulder Holster Shrug"..It makes for strained feelings all around.

[Gorzaloon]

I'm sorry, I meant this to be a PRIVATE reply, please don't get offended those of you who did post publicly. It was not meant to be posted here.

I thoroughly enjoyed the post and it was a genuine contribution.

[ExSoldier]

My advice stands on a platform for the .223. The ONLY reason I'd go with the AK is for the 7.62x39 ammo and that famed Ak reliability. But again, the ammo is too easily choked off.

[gundog]

Looks like little pin pricks.

Gotta choose appropriately sized shot. That said, nobody wants a face-full of #8.

[Gilbo_3]

try one on

the only way to know...i tried a few cheap nylon varieties and couldnt get the angle of the 1911 to fit right...

the ugly ole Crossbreed super tuck is adjustable and i can manage to contour around my side with the grip...took a good 40 plus hrs of wear to really get the leather to conform to me...

[Gilbo_3]

so much for muscle memory eh ??? 8^}...

all good info, thanks for posting...

[Niteranger68]

My main rub with IWB is the traditional 4:00 - 5:00 position for RH presentation. I prefer to carry in the 9:00 - 3:00 range to maximize my retention odds (based on my personal skill...not true for everybody). I specifically like to carry 2:30 with a Fobus paddle holster. They seem to keep the weapon fairly snug to the body (not the Roto version...they stick out about 1/2” more). I can also press the inside of my right forearm against the gun if I'm having to move through a crowded area.

[xarmydog]

I own a Bersa Thunder in 380 and at 15 ft with 102 grain hollow points,it will go through a 50 gallon barrel.In one side and out the other.The exit holes are impressive.
Very accurate out of the box and only jammed once during break in.It takes a few rounds to break it in though as it is pretty tight.Sadly,the ammo has been hard to get where I am though,but it is improving.35 dollars for a box of 50.
I was impressed with the gun though and not disappointed at all.

[ExSoldier]

Like any muscle, it weakens with disuse. Mine did. I was urged to go home to the 1911 platform by my friends in Special Forces. That I merely had to reinvigorate that muscle memory and I have to agree with that observation. I'd just let it slip...

[surfer]

Of course there is a small caliber that I really like...North American Arms that holds 2 22mag rounds. I keep it next to my wallet...pull out my wallet and let em have it :)

[Gorzaloon]

North American Arms that holds 2 22mag rounds.

Heh. Check this out:

"Used for self defence in a revolver, the .22 WMR has compiled a 42% one shot stop rate according to Marshall and Sanow. This is far superior to the .22 LR and .25 ACP, and makes the .22 WMR the best of the small bore handgun cartridges." Something like Mach 1.5 out of a 6-1/2" barrel.

Oh good. A shopping excuse. Now I want one.