WHAT WILL YOU SACRIFICE?

What will you do when push comes to shove? Will you accept the marxist slavery or will you fight!?

I keep asking you the same question - and I'm not getting an answer. Let me try to express myself in a clearer way. The point where I fight is death camps and mass murder of conservatives or any other group - Christians, Jews, Whites, Blacks ... ANY GROUP. In short, if our government were to go totalitarian - that's my line.

What is your line in the sand. Name it. Not generalities. What is it? Say it like this, "I fight when _____________ happens."

As far as the election process is concerned - I'm 100% behind it. If RINO's are elected again - it's OUR FAULT. We need to campaign harder. Run better candidates, etc. It is not a reason for violence. Maybe we should look at our ability to convince others of our beliefs... if we're failing at that it's NOT a reason for an upraising. We don't have the right to define 'what should be' any more than they do. That's decided in the ballot box.

If the majority of people want dems, THEY HAVE THAT RIGHT. Same if they want liberal conservatives. It's a free country. NO GROUP - not radical conservatives or radical liberals have the right to impose their beliefs on their fellow citizens.

So again, my line in the sand is death camps - mass murders based on political beliefs. And that "line in the sand" would apply to either party that decided to use those tactics. What's your "line in the sand"...

So let’s see. Jesus said love your neighbor as you love yourself.

Yes.

That means you’ll gladly let the neo-Maoists deprive you of your job, your home, your children, even your known whereabouts.

I won't "let" them. They'll do it whether I "let" them or not. They have all the power. They could do it to me or to you right now. It happens to people all the time. The only reason it hasn't happened to anyone here on FR is because no one here poses any real threat. If any of us were a real threat, they'd Wacoize us.

I’m sure I’m right, because that’s what you’ll let happen to us, and as a good observer of the Golden Rule, that means you’d be just as happy if it happened to you, right?

I have no idea what you mean here. I wish I were a good observer of the Golden Rule.

Well, I find that kind of odd for a Catholic, because someone I know of with a funny hat paints quite a different picture than you do of our Declaration of Independence, what it means, and what it implies about your moral obligation to the rest of us:

“The United States of America was founded on the conviction that an inalienable right to life was a self-evident moral truth, fidelity to which was a primary criterion of social justice. The moral history of your country is the story of your people’s efforts to widen the circle of inclusion in society, so that all Americans might enjoy the protection of law, participate in the responsibilities of citizenship, and have the opportunity to make a contribution to the common good. Whenever a certain category of people—the unborn or the sick and old—are excluded from that protection, a deadly anarchy subverts the original understanding of justice. The credibility of the United States will depend more and more on its promotion of a genuine culture of life, and on a renewed commitment to building a world in which the weakest and most vulnerable are welcomed and protected.” ~Pope John Paul II

I agree with every word. Now please post the one where he says that we're supposed to start shooting people.

BTW, if we’re all, from your perspective, just a bunch of eternally doomed, time-wasting graffiti-writers who deserve no protection from the encroaching tyranny

Eternally doomed? I have no idea. I hope not.

Time-wasting graffiti-writer? In your case, yes.

Deserving of protection from the encroaching tyranny? There is no protection from tyranny in this world. And as for what we deserve — if Jesus Christ didn't deserve protection, nobody does.Yet no one protected Jesus from tyranny. He did a criminal's death. No one protected St. Stephen from tyranny, either. No one protected the Apostles from tyranny. (All but one of them died horrible deaths at the hands of tyrants.) No one protected the martyrs of the Coliseum from tyranny, or the martyrs of Lyons, or the martyrs of Japan, or St. Joan of Arc, or poor Saint Lawrence, who got roasted on a freaking grill. God decided to allow these truly holy people to die in shame, crushed beneath the bootheel of tyranny. Do you think we deserve better? If so, you're fooling yourself.

It is the duty of the Christian to suffer. Our Lord did. As tyranny gets worse, we're just going to have to shut up and take it. Christians have been doing that since the days of Nero.

What are you doing here?

Watching the human circus go by. It's an amusing pastime.

It’s not to foster unity against the destroyers of our country, that’s for sure.

Our country was destroyed years ago. All we're doing now is propping up the corpse.

Catholic evangelism, then?

Me? i wish. I'm the world's worst Catholic. Sure, I know the rules, but when it comes to following them, I stink.

Or are you intentionally sowing discord and despair among brethren as part of some perceived religious duty to “help the prophecy along?” Fatima, of course, the suppressed, apocalyptic version.

Yes. You have found me out. I am a part of the international Opus Dei conspiracy to bring about the Third Secret of Fatima. Curses, foiled again.

(Actually, we Catholics aren't into immanentizing the Eschaton. That's really an Evangelical sort of thing.)

FRiend, I'm tired of talking about this. I don't really care what you think on any subject, anyway. If it pleases you to live in a fantasy world where rednecks with deer rifles can defeat an army with tanks and helicopters, I won't try to talk you out of it. Relax and enjoy the comfort of your own delusions.

I would love to meet you in person, if for no other reason than to watch you swallow your “redneck” stereotype whole. Now that *would* be amusing.

As for being amused at other people’s misery, I believe it falls quite far short of the Golden Rule, and is not merely a matter of being a poor Catholic.

And that’s what confuses me. You say you agree with the Pope’s words, but it was he who brought up protection of life as the core principle of our Republic, and the right to self defense and defense of others is no more than a logical extension of that right to life. Common law, rooted both in canon law and Scripture, acknowledges the use of proportional force for defense of self and others. That does not necessarily require the use of bullets, but it does grant the possibility. Jesus allowed the disciples two swords, not enough to create the appearance of a threat of aggression, but just enough to mount a meaningful defense in a pinch.

So if you really believe what the Pope said, why is it so hard for you to acknowledge your God-given duty to help protect your neighbor?

“If you faint in the day of adversity, Your strength is small. Deliver those who are drawn toward death, And hold back those stumbling to the slaughter. If you say, “Surely we did not know this,” Does not He who weighs the hearts consider it? He who keeps your soul, does He not know it? And will He not render to each man according to his deeds?”
~King Solomon (Proverbs 24:10-12)

"Now please post the one where he says that we're supposed to start shooting people."

Man, I don't think I understand you,
and I'm not sure how to take you, as sarcastic or serious.

Don't you remember

there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was
since there was a nation
even to that same time:

And what about the fact that

Jesus Christ is the same Lord of the Old Testament.Have you not read ...

In the beginning was the Word,
and the Word was with God,
and the Word was God.
The same was in the beginning with God.

All things were made by him;
and without him was not any thing made that was made.

In him was life;
and the life was the light of men.
And the light shineth in darkness;
and the darkness comprehended it not.

There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
The same came for a witness,
to bear witness of the Light,
that all men through him might believe.

He was not that Light,
but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
That was the true Light,
which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

He was in the world,
and the world was made by him,
and the world knew him not.

Didn't Jesus say ...?

For I say unto you,
That unto every one which hath
shall be given;
and from him that hath not,
even that he hath
shall be taken away from him.

But those mine enemies,
which would not
that I should reign over them,

bring hither,
and slay them before me.

Who was it ... that took up the Ghost from Ananias and Sapphira?

Who was it ... that taught his people how to war to defend themselves?

Didn't our Heavenly Father, through our Savior tell us...

" thou mayest not set a stranger over thee,
which is not thy brother."

How well we deserve this curse (~so shall the LORD bring upon you all evil things~) God has given us, through the ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT IN CHIEF, the FASCIST Obama.

It must be remembered ...

To every thing there is a season,
and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
A time to be born,
and a time to die;
a time to plant,
and a time to pluck up that which is planted;
A time to kill,
and a time to heal;
a time to break down,
and a time to build up;
A time to weep,
and a time to laugh;
a time to mourn,
and a time to dance;
A time to cast away stones,
and a time to gather stones together;
a time to embrace,
and a time to refrain from embracing;
A time to get,
and a time to lose;
a time to keep,
and a time to cast away;
A time to rend,
and a time to sew;
a time to keep silence,
and a time to speak;
A time to love,
and a time to hate;
a time of war,
and a time of peace.

What profit hath he
that worketh in that
wherein he laboureth?

I have seen the travail,
which God hath given to the sons of men
to be exercised in it.

He hath made every thing beautiful in his time:
also he hath set the world in their heart,
so that no man can find out the work that God maketh
from the beginning to the end.

I know that there is no good in them,
but for a man to rejoice,
and to do good in his life.

And also that every man should eat and drink,
and enjoy the good of all his labour,
it is the gift of God.
I know that, whatsoever God doeth,
it shall be for ever:
nothing can be put to it,
nor any thing taken from it:
and God doeth it,
that men should fear before him.

That which hath been
is now;
and that which is to be
hath already been;
and God requireth that
which is past.
And moreover
I saw under the sun the place of judgment,
that wickedness was there;
and the place of righteousness,
that iniquity was there.
I said in mine heart,
God shall judge the righteous and the wicked:
for there is a time there
for every purpose and for every work.

I said in mine heart
concerning the estate of the sons of men,
that God might manifest them,
and that they might see
that they themselves are beasts.

This too shall pass...(probably is coming to pass ... right now)

They hate him that rebuketh in the gate,
and they abhor him that speaketh uprightly.
Forasmuch therefore as your treading is upon the poor,
and ye take from him burdens of wheat:
ye have built houses of hewn stone,
but ye shall not dwell in them;
ye have planted pleasant vineyards,
but ye shall not drink wine of them.

For I know your manifold transgressions and your mighty sins:
they afflict the just,
they take a bribe,
and they turn aside the poor in the gate from their right.

Let us be ... a "thorn in their side".

"But if ye will not drive out the inhabitants of the land from before you;
then it shall come to pass,
that those which ye let remain of them
shall be pricks in your eyes,
and thorns in your sides,
and shall vex you in the land wherein ye dwell.

Moreover
it shall come to pass,
that I shall do unto you,
as I thought to do unto them."

Yes, ... we SHOULD DEFEND OUR REPUBLIC!!!

And I thought I had your silly coward ass straightened

out on this BS,,,

I showed you the numbers on both “sides” ,,,

Why don't you go look them up for yourself,,,

It's all about the NUMBERS!!! DUH!!!,,,

Lets try this another way,,,

Do you remember the saying :

“A Rifle Behind Every Blade Of Grass.”?,,,

Would you not even defend your family ???,,,

Would you just stand by while they were raped and murdered??

We defended the weak back in 68’ with our lives and all

that GOD gave us to fight with,,,

Killed Giap’s whole army,,,

Then people like YOU gave it all away,,,

SAT CONG!!!...

By the way - Now's the time to clarify values. I have mine - but strength comes in numbers. Here's what I will NOT fight about... If there's a duly elected group - liberals - and they make laws I hate - that's their right. When we're in office, we'll make laws they hate - and expect them to follow those laws. It's a free country. Election winners get to call the shots. It's how the system works. I like that - I believe in our system of government. If we don't like what liberals are doing (legally) then we can work harder and VOTE THEM OUT. That's how a free culture - rule of law - country works it.

I agree . . . . up to a point. When liberals "win" elections by fraud, intimidation, manipulation and lying, they have discredited themselves AND their "right" to make the laws.

And, THIS is where we are today. When the dumbed down masses voted zero and his henchmen in, they weren't voting for communism, they were voting for anyone who wasn't either Bush or a "demonized" Republican.

There's a HUGE difference between winning an election fair and square, and winning by deceit. But, you seem to accept either one.

I don't. And that may be an unbridgeable gap that will always divide us.

There's a HUGE difference between winning an election fair and square, and winning by deceit. But, you seem to accept either one. I don't. And that may be an unbridgeable gap that will always divide us.

I don't accept either one. But again - this issue needs to be clarified. For example, if four Republicans "do" voter intimidation at a polling place, does that give radical liberals the right to close down the vote and "take over"? My answer is "no". The same applies to us - if four or five black panthers do voter intimidation, do WE have the right to "take over"? My answer again is, 'no'.

There are ways to deal with voter intimidation within a free society - and we need to do that. First, vote the current bunch out of office. Then put in an attorney general who applies the law the same - regardless of color - one law - applied - colorblind...

If that doesn't work, we move to the streets and protest. Write letters. Sing 'we shall overcome'. We're years away from violence - lots of things to try first...

If one party or the other suspends voting - as a prelude to running the trains... then we move to resistance. We're NOT there. And that's what needs to be clarified. When do we stop being a thorn in the side of radical liberal evil and become "resistance"? What's the tipping point?

What's our plan for each level of corruption? Four thugs intimidating voters is not cause for revolution. For either side. What is? Where's your line? I have one. When voting is suspended unless the outcome is what the thugs in power want - that's a line... one that can't be crossed. Up until that line I prefer other choices.

So for you Dusty, what's your line that can't be crossed for voting?

ME: So for you Dusty, what's your line that can't be crossed for voting?
YOU: Dead people. Homeless people picked up and bussed to a polling place to vote for one or more specific candidates (motor voter) - all for the price of a pack of cigarettes. ACORN . . . . . having ANYTHING to do with an election. The same for SEIU and other union thugs.

If by "dead people" you mean that radical liberals are killing conservatives who go to vote, then, I'm with you. That level of violence - if it was happening with the consent of those governing - would be a tipping point for me. And I would assume if it wasn't stopped that it would be with the "consent of those governing"... We would stand together against them, Dusty.

If on the other hand you mean liberals "voting the dead" as in taking the names of people who have died and voting those people - then we're not on the same page. There are legal remedies for that - maybe ones that aren't strong enough - but they exist. EVERY Republican or conservative candidate running should be asked how they feel about the dead voting and what laws would they be willing to change to stop the problem. This is a "hold their feet to the fire" problem. ( and no, I don't mean literally holding anyone's feet to real fire)

Liberals moderate all the debates and we wonder why our issues aren't addressed. Change that. Ask for debates to be held on local FOX channels - only. Ask for moderators to identify themselves - or we'll identify them based on what they've written - and make it equal. Two liberals, two conservatives. Protest about the voter fraud issue. Make sure they know it's on the voter's mind. Voter fraud has to be handled within the law. Our guys should have made those laws stronger years agoa. Democrats think it's funny to cheat - we need to expose that - most voters DO NOT think it's funny - and it'll hurt dems in elections.

Dems all know voter fraud is going on ... they need to be put on record about it. Stronger laws need to be written - stronger penalties called for...

ACORN - if ACORN is accepted as a legitimate non-profit organization then they have the right to function. Period. We can try to expose their criminal activities - guilt trip local papers into hireing a token conservative or two - set up organizations to counter ACORNS lies... but violence? Nope. Again - it's legal to "be nuts - or to be ACORN"... It's the Same for SEIU - it's a legal union. They have the right to exist. When they beat up conservatives - wait, wasn't it teamsters who beat up Freepers? Brother and sister in PA? ( and of course we didn't get justice because conservatives are "the jews" in this country...) Anyhow the SEIU are thugs - but they know the legal line - and for the most part they don't cross it. When they do, we need to call the few in the media who have the courage to stand with us and take them on. But again, NOT WITH VIOLENCE. Besides, who would you shoot? Some innocent person working as a receptionists in a SEIU office? Come on... ya gotta get real. Legal groups have the right to exist - no matter how noxious they are to us personally. Our groups also have the right to exist - no matter how noxious we are to them.

Until they start loading us on trains for camps - let's just keep our powder dry...and our wits about us. We live in dangerous times - and the way radical liberals act scares me too. Horrible things happened in Germany almost 70 years ago - and they can happen here. I used to think the first ones taken to the camps would be us - conservatives - but I don't think that anymore. There's too many of us. And the Tea Party movement has taken the lie away that all of us are violent nutcases. So it's not going to be us - but there will be a scapegoat again - it's how the system works. (You might want to buy F.A. HAYEK's "The Road to Serfdom" - he explains a lot of what happened in Germany that caused the evil to happen) Anyhow, the scapegoat - my guess is that it'll be the Jews again. We can stop that. Conservatives can bond with orthodox Jews - that should safeguard all of them. Jews are too small a group to stand alone - and too easy for liberals to turn on - lots of perverse incentives happening... Anyhow, I've drifted off topic. I'm in Florida and the weather is gloomy because of the coming storm and I'm spending waaaay too much time on this reply... I pray for my country. I pray to a 31 year old Jewish man - I say, "in Jesus name I pray"...

I’ve been out of pocket most of yesterday and today so I’m a little slow in responding.

You force some interesting thoughts - which is a good thing. You don’t seem the be the dumbass you first seemed to be. So, my apologies for making assumptions.

You line is a good place to start. Carting people off to camps - that’s a concrete line.

But what if ‘they’ start carting people off in the dead of night; making it so people can’t get a job because of their opinions? How do you find the line there?? I don’t know. And to me, that’s the start of an inexorable slide that won’t end well.

I think it was you that said upthread if 4 people keep some people from voting is not sufficient cause. Ok. Maybe. But if the appropriate officials fail to act in response - - then what? To me, failure to protect and preserve voting rights for all legally entitled to vote is pretty egregious. Will I shoot someone over that? NO. But it could be a tipping point that leads to further action.

Maybe that’s what you’re trying to get at. Your absolute is death camps. But where’s the tipping point before your line? I’m afraid many people are reaching their tipping point with this president and Congress. The federal overeach. Passing laws that the people clearly do not want. When does ‘consent of the governed’ kick in? I think we’re at that point. I think there is an anger that is starting to really build against our so-called leaders. They ignore that at their peril. I just read something here today about how much Congress spends on food for themselves. All I could think of was ‘let them eat cake’. This disconnect between the government and the governed is not headed in a good direction. And honestly, I think, is past the point of no return. One spark is all it will take.

I’m sorry for the somewhat stream-of-conciousness rambling. It’s Friday. I had a long, difficult week and I’m tired. I hope I was able to get some of my thoughts across.

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