Posted on 04/05/2010 7:40:19 AM PDT by DCBryan1
Freepers: The new wife has given me a new "honey do" list. Included, in this quarter's budget is to install a backup generator in our somewhat remote home.
We have a 4k sq/ft home in Arkansas, and her criteria is to be able to run everything in the house if the power goes out. We are next to the last connection on a long line down a valley, down by the river and can expect a long power outage if we get tornados, storms, ice, etc.
We are expecting our first child, and I think that a good standby generator would be a good investment given our location.
I don't want to list all of our appliances, normal for most households, but we do have x2 freezers, and I have a small machine shop and a small wood working shop, and a koi pond. I understand that we will not be using everything at once, but would like a very capable generator.
Wife wants me to start brewing Lambics, like a monk, and also, some Sour Beers.
We tasted some sours in CA that took a few years to make, and it was DELICIOUS!
I have that modern ammo that you don’t have to keep in the fridge....
jus kiddin!
Sounds like you’re set! GMTA!
Rather than trying to heat with electricity, put in a woodstove. Much more practical.
If summer conditions are unbearable without AC, designate one smallish room the summer refuge and run a window unit in it. Figure its consumption (high) into your load requirements.
BTW, largish generators burn a remarkable amount of fuel.
No need to try to run an oven or kitchen electrics from the generator. Use your exterior gas grille (three or four extra canisters of gas).
2. Depending on house layout, try to choose one or two rooms to close off and service.
Careful use of small space heaters will work. Two or three lamps. TV. Run other items while turning off these. Such as bottle warmer for infant, electric grill, coffee maker, hair dryer can be run while lamps/tv are off.
3. Problem of refrigerator and water heater. Depending on sizes and electrical issues, you should consult an electrician.
I ended up with two Honda diesel generators. One for refrigerator and other items that needed to run full time, and a second to operate intermittently.
6500 should do on one, and 5000 on the other.
Diesel fuel will have a longer shelf life.
Batteries, natural gas, other options don't afford the ease or surety of operation.
Spread around your dependency.
Good luck.
4,000 sq. ft. house - may have more than 200 amp
A Natural Gas generator would be the think if you have NG service. Quite and less service.
More than 200 amp would also provide electric heat and air conditioning.
I don't think he was considering that.
Thank for asking the question. My son is also considering this exercise. Some good links and comments here.
It might be wise to spec up for a few days beyond the most likely outage (??) or risk the on-going vocal displeasure of the consumer, in this case your wife. IMO that almost certainly would exceed 1-3 days.
In a SHTF situation fuel will be a substantial (perhaps non-cash) major cost even if it is available. The analysis might start with how much fuel you can reasonably store on your property and spec from there.
I saw up thread someone say 2.5 gallon per hour on propane and I was thinking to myself that it seemed like a lot of propane. 500 gallon tank 200 hour run time?
Have you ever measured your consumption?
Thanks for the info.
Try a steam powered generator....for auto-use get a pellet fired steam generator....and you can also make your own pellets...extrude a sawdust mash.
I’d buy what the pros buy.
Sorry to the Generac, Honda, Cat folks...
The largest hospitals in Houston during a Hurricane, used Kohler, the Police, Fire, 911, EMS, Buildings large and small all around Houston during Hurricane IKE used Kohler.
Just my 2 cents. If you want pro level durable solutions, get what they get. And PAY for the maintenance agreement under contract. When everyone in town needed repairs only the folks that had a contract got serviced first. Everyone else went to the back of the list and it was a long list in during the aftermath of a hurricane.
Diesel is probably the best solution, unless you have a gas feed that is reliable.
AND FOLLOW the operation instructions. If it says REST IT after 8 hours you better do it! Those that didn’t during the hurricane paid a price for not following the instructions. Get it professionally installed.
Hard lessons from a place where city wide in many places we were without power for 2 weeks here.
While purusing the Northern Tool and Equipment catalog this weekend, I saw they sell low wattage fridges and freezers made for use with solar panels,alternative energy...they are smaller and better insulated with smaller capacity(and smaller motors)
Yes, my 15 Kw Guardian Generator is also rated at 2.5 gallons per hour, at Full Load. At full load I would have to be using 133 amps at 120 volts or 66 amps at 240 volts. I will barely use 20 to 30 amps, on a continous basis, when the well pump and refrigerator and freezer and microwave are not being used, which is most of the time. Those items consume the most Amps, but, I only use them occasionally.
So, I will probably run the generator at 25-35% load factor, which if I am carefull with items, I could get a few weeks from (2) full 200 gallon propane tanks.
I have calculated amp draw of all items in my house, and the rating on the generator, but, since I got the generator, the longest I have been out of power has been about 1 hour, so have not been able to do a real calculation. But, I feel that the theoretical should be very close.
Looks like she already does run everything (by the way, I can relate).
Two important questions:
Do you have a well and do you want water? If yes, what are the requirements of the pumps and controllers? 3-phase?
Do you want to run a computer or appliances, including a modern well control, that have chips or printed circuit boards without destroying them? Conditioned power generators cost more.
The motor will probably be 4 cylinders and water cooled. You can get them to run on the dual fuels of natural gas and LP. You'll have to decide on how long an outage of commercial electricity (and/or natural gas) you wish to endure, in order to determine the size of your on-site fuel storage. One nice thing about LP is that it'll keep for a long time, in contrast to gasoline.
Bear in mind that the more peak load you expect, the larger the generator has to be; and this in turn makes it fuel-hungry even when you minimize the load in an attempt to economize.
[[Come to think of it, this might make an argument for two smaller generators, so that you can run on one of them most of the time, and enjoy greater fuel economy. You might consider buying a smaller one that's adequate for you minimum needs, and adding an auxiliary in the future, to handle the larger loads like A/C or electric appliances. The railroads are beginning to have locomotives built with multiple smaller motors, for the sake of economy of both fuel and maintenance, BTW.]]
Generac is sold in some of the chain stores, and they have a brochure explaining how to size the generator to your usage, and how much fuel it will consume. They probably have the same information on line.
The other thing to consider, as you may alrady have done, is your other utilities. How do you provide for water and wastewater, and how do cook and heat water? The natural gas/LP combo can help with your other heating needs also--for a price.
I may replace the unit if I find a deal on a much larger unit in the future. Something in the 30Kw to 50Kw range. I have an RV with a generator and a small portable gasoline generator to run other items as necessary.
Propane is the fuel I prefer. It does not have the storage problems diesel and gasoline do; it simply does not go bad in the tank. NG is not an option for me because it is not available, but even so I would prefer to have my own fuel on hand. Propane allows you to store a months of fuel without worrying about bacteria or water condensation.
In my way of thinking, minimal creature comforts and keeping the deep freezer running are the main items I want to cover and the small unit does that.
Running everything in the house isn’t practical. You don’t do that when you do have power. The size of generator to do that would not be practical in installation or usage.
A 12kw generator will run everything that you need to run at the same time and will not make the noise, take up the space or burn the fuel of a 40-100kw generator that could actually run every thing at once.
Are you on NG or propane, if so, they are the easiest to use. No fuel spoilage or 5 gallon tins.
Talk to an electrician, they can set you up in a fully automated system.
Interesting thread (as always for preppers!) and I am surprised it took this long to mention wood as part of the plan.
We are in the process of looking for a place on acreage and ponderosa pine is abundant. I became very interested in wood fired boilers and hydronic heat only to discover that Washington State does not allow them.
Any thoughts on Russian stoves? We are hoping to get radiant heat built in (if we build) or retrofitted to the house and I have been studying them. Was not surprised to learn that a Russian stove can be set up with a water coil circulation system to feed radiant heat or hot water heater.
My dream was to get a Garn boiler that keeps 2000g of water heated for the house and hot water. Those things are very impressive and by my calculations I think they could meet the Washington State environazi standards if you ran it with well seasoned (dry) wood. Could heat well over 4000 sqft plus a shop with one.
We are going to get a generator but don’t plan on running everything. Probably our freezer, a 4 cubic foot fridge, and pumps for heat. I want to build a root cellar or cold storage room too.
Lots of stuff to think about!
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