Posted on 03/09/2010 7:59:05 AM PST by Palter
The recent finding of a 19th century silver bracelet in Alamo Mocho, in the desert of Baja California, represents the first material evidence of presence of the Mormon Battalion, which camped at the site before integrating to the 1847 Mexico-United States War (Mexican War).
The discovery took place after a sandstorm uncovered archaeological material. Specialists of the National Institute of Anthropology and History (INAH) began exploration at the site afterwards.
The jewel represents a clear testimony for Mexican and American historians that Mormons camped in Alamo Mocho approximately for 3 days, before their integration with the 1847 war, fact only stated in documents until now.
Archaeologist Antonio Porcayo Michelini declared this at the Baja California Archaeology Analysis Table that took place recently in Tijuana, Baja California. He detailed that a bifacial stone knife was found as well, which could be more than 8,000 years old. Other material found consists of Yumana ceramics, fish bones and other mammals’ rests.
Archaeological research conducted in December 2009 counted on with participation of students of the National School of Anthropology and History (INAH), Mexico City, and resulted in the finding of the silver bracelet.
“A sparkling object caught my eye: it was an exquisite silver bracelet, with the Ten Commandments in ancient English and the front and back covers of the Bible carved; 2 angel hands adorned the fasteners”.
“Apparently, the owner of the bracelet was a Mormon soldier part of the battalion. Looking for water, the contingent integrated by 500 men, in charge of Lieutenant Colonel Philip St. George Cook, camped at Alamo Mocho in January 1847, on their way to San Diego, to help United States Army invade California. The government offered to award them with terrain in Utah and Nevada where they could freely live according to their religion”.
Alamo Mocho, near Mexicali, Baja California, has been studied by INAH since 2007, but it was in December 2009 that systematic and extensive exploration began, which consists of covering the zone, collecting superficial archaeological material and conducting first excavations.
Other material found in the nearly 6-hectare site, according to Porcayo, is evidence of the passing of human groups attracted by the water wells that allowed survival.
During the next months, the bracelet will undergo research that might determine who the owner was, by consulting archives such as rosters and detailed registers made by Mormons, concluded the archaeologist.
“You claim to be a mormonite.
You claim to love Jesus Christ.”
Blah blah blah. I don’t just claim to love Jesus. I do love Him. He is my Savior.
He is my Judge; not you.
““You claim to be a mormonite.
“You claim to love Jesus Christ.”
“I don’t just claim to love Jesus. I do love Him. He is my Savior. He is my Judge; not you.
Yes, but you completely avoided my question Saundra.
Do you love the mormonite jesus, who is a created being, who became a man, who became a god - therefore was never able to save?
OR
The Biblical Jesus - GOD from all eternity, neither created nor made? The one who had an eternal life to lay down that was without sin because He is God?
Which Jesus are you claiming to love? Which?
best,
ampu
Saundra,
You made large claims on this thread about “loving Jesus” and loving the mormon church.
Yet when I ask you which Jesus you claim to love (see post above), all I here is mormon crickets chirping in the background.
Is that because:
A. you are unsure which Jesus the mormon church teaches
B. you are unsure which you claim to love, or
C. it makes you very uncomfortable to see the difference between the Jesus Christ who is revealed in the Bible versus the man jesus the mormon church teaches about?
D. All of the above
E. None of the above (please specify)
[Ping to Inmans - this is a very good lesson about the usage of Christian words, including the name of Christ, by the mormon church and individual mormons. One we shouldn’t forget in our discussions.
I don’t claim to have any idea what SD believes, and can only ask her for clarification.
We don’t know what happens inside a person’s heart, we only know what they claim. But often, apparently, THEY do not know what they mean when they make claims here on FR and in the non-virtual world. If their claims feel good or sound good, that’s good enough for them.
The issue is, once you change the identity of the Savior to someone or something that could never save, and then claim you believe in that and love it, has it lost enough meaning to no longer save? Only faith in Christ’s free gift, the real Christ, results in salvation.
This is also a good lesson of why we need to not only show the truth, but to pray that God opens the eyes of those we witness to.]
SD - exactly how did Jesus short - circuit the eternal principles - to become a God WITHOUT coming to earth, fulfilling all the ordinances and principles (such as temple ordinances - marriage, baptism for dead, etc - ALL WITHOUT a 'body'. The assembled lurkers are desiring to know.
Oh my heck, I never saw that gaping hole. Yes Saundra, enquiring minds want to know. I have been making a study of Mormon beliefs and this is an interesting question.
Mormons are taught to have personal conversations with their heavenly father rather than reciting “canned prayers”.
- - - - - - -
Hogwash! Mormons are so caught up in following their own ‘formula’ (which you posted above), using ‘proper King James English’, and making sure they sound ‘reverent’, that there is no real conversation and no real heartfelt love or emotion.
LDS prayers are more ‘canned’ (just like LDS testimonies) than I have ever heard from non-Mormons.
Worth a re-post:
Mormonism is not just a work of “fiction”, it is a work of EVIL
I really do not think that SD has any real knowledge of LDS doctrine.
She claims to have a Christian background based upon her posts, but I suspect if she was really saved, she, like so many others, were immature in the Christian faith and weak in the Bible and thus easily deceived by the half truths of Mormonism. It would also constantly explain the self-identification as a “Mormon” rather than a Christian.
I believe that SD, like many other LDS, say they love and worship Jesus and that is the same Jesus of the Bible ONLY because they are TOLD that rather than investigating and researching on their own.
I have met ‘spiritually lazy’ Christians who repeat what their pastor says and don’t read the Bible on their own, but the LDS FAR, FAR surpass that laziness all the while claiming how much they ‘study’.
In reality, their ‘studies’ are all LDS church propaganda that is regurgitated over and over and over, independent research is frowned upon. A sure sign of brainwashing.
I appreciate your observations and thoughts.
I want to be clear that I am not judging Saundra for her statement. I’m seeking clarification of what she means when she says she loves Jesus.
In fact, if she answers that she loves the mormon Jesus and not the Biblical Christ, I am not judging her for that.
I believed far, far worse before the advent of God’s revelation and grace in my life (which I assure all was unmerited and undeserved in any way) - and I don’t know the struggles she has faced in her life or that path she’s trod.
I’m simply trying to understand what she actually means when she posts this (which she has posted numerous times.
Best,
ampu
And my response was in part because I do not expect a well reasoned answer. You cannot give an answer for something that you do not understand.
So much of the LDS terms and such are rote rather than fully thought through and understood.
Been there, done that.
And I have no doubt that SD BELIEVES it is the same Christ and that she loves Him. I did too when I was LDS.
It was only after I left the LDS and came to really know what Christ’s grace and love was (through being Born Again spiritually) did I fully understand that I had no clue about Christ or His love when I was LDS.
reaganaut,
I suspect you are right. I look forward to being informed by Saundra’s answer as to which Christ she is referring to.
best,
ampu
Mormons believe that all men are gods in embryo, that they can become a god by obeying the doctrines outlined in the D&C’s, especially 132.
If this is true Saundra, how did the Jesus of mormonism become a god as outlined in D&C 132 then? There had to be some way for him to be married and sealed in order to attain the everlasting covenant? Where was the temple in which He took out His endowments? Where is the record of Him taking a bride?
If God is the Alpha and Omega, how can there be any before Him or after? How do the LdS reconcile this clear contradiction in scripture and doctrine?
Mormons do not worship the same Jesus of the Christian Bible. They worship the Jesus of the JST Bible and their other scriptures.
“him” = Him
Hey MORMONs!
Look what the Catholics have got!!
http://www.vatican.va/various/basiliche/san_giovanni/vr_tour/index-en.html
The Articles of Faith
of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.
We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam’s transgression.
We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.
We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.
We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.
We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.
We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.
We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.
We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.
We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.
Joseph Smith
That’s nice.
Denial is not a river in Egypt Saundra.
I posted LDS “Articles of Faith” - what we believe.
Please post what you believe. Thank you.
As an apostate, I know what I believed as an active Mormon and at the time, believed it to be true. However, during a priesthood meeting one Sunday, the class was going over the D&C's and skipped Section 132. I wondered why and began to read and study it. It didn't pass the “smell check”. I started looking into it more and eventually approached our bishop about it.
I was told that in due time, I would gain an understanding of what was meant. I didn't accept that answer, so I began researching the answers to those questions. What I found out is what gave me the impetus to quit Mormonism.
I was asking you those questions in hopes you would research the answers so that hopefully, you would see the conflict within the LdS religion.
See the post you replied to by posting the LdS articles of faith without answering any of the questions.
I believe those questions undermine not only the credibility of JS, but ultimately, the LdS church as well.
I also believe God gave us the ability to reason and use our powers of deduction to separate truth from fiction. I don't rely on my feelings to determine what is and isn't true.
The main problems for me are; The hubris of a Mormon priesthood holder to believe that he can become a god is not only egotistic, it is heresy. The temple ordinances are another. The fact that a supposed eternal principle in Mormonism has been changed numerous times and has no scriptural backing invalidates its authenticity or the LdS claim of its necessity to return to heaven.
When I was newly Baptized, I started reading the anti Mormon crappola online. I read, and studied, and found it to be garbage and written by people with a bias and agenda of their own.
I printed out the Articles of Faith for you and said this is what I believe. Then I asked you what you believe.
You are insistent on stating what you believe about Mormons but I want to know what you believe, not what you think Mormons believe.
I read your post over again and am left wondering again what do you believe? You say you do not believe that I believe the LDS Articles of Faith because you believe they are in conflict with what you believe about the LDS faith. Sheeeesh already.
The Holy Ghost is my witness that the LDS Church is true, that the Book of Mormon is True, the Bible is true, that Jesus Christ is my Savior, that the Church of Jesus Christ has been restored to the earth in these latter days, that we have a living Prophet today . . . everything stated in the 13 Articles of Faith.
I have been a member for ten years. I have been hurt and disappointed by fellow members and I’m sure I have hurt and disappointed others, too. Here’s what I always say: The Church is perfect but the people are not.
I wish you could open your mind and heart just a little to be more understanding of us Mormons. Jesus died for us, too.
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