Need help with Dis-assembly/ Field Stripping of a Remington Model 11 Shotgun (vanity)

1/2/10 | blueflag

[Blueflag]

Need some FReeper help here. I now have my dad's Model 11 Remington shotgun. It's a 12 G, 2 3/4" shells, serial number 744763. Mod choke. Made 1940s or earlier.

I'd like to clean and prep it quite thoroughly prior to its trip to a gunsmith for a safety/ops check.

Anybody have a good source for how to dissemble/clean it?

many thanks!

[Blueflag]

I don’t intend to hunt with a scatter gun. I’ll treat this one as an heirloom. But I still want it to be functional.

I have always been a small bore long rifle hunter. Thought it to be more sporting. Also, after ONE waterfowl hunting foray, where I stood in shin deep ice water for hours, just to hope a target flew within range ... I have no personal use for that type of hunting. I much prefer to walk and stalk. Can’t do the deer stand thing either.

Thanks all for the advice.

[Blueflag]

LOL. it’s exactly like that!

I just hate to take a firearm to a ‘smith that’s potentially in bad shape. I can at least clean it and oil it!

But, yeah, it’s a bit OCD ;-)

[Blueflag]

thanks all for the advice!

The good news is that my study now has a very manly gun oil/ Outers aroma ;-)

[SWAMPSNIPER]

Based om memory, DO NOT LET THE MAINSPRING GET AWAY FROM YOU !! Other than that I don’t recall it being a complicated issue. There is a bronze ring around the magazine tube, mark it with a sharpie so you know which way it goes. It’s Browning all the way as far as design goes.

[1COUNTER-MORTER-68]

http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0geutbwxj9LmvQAZLZXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTEybmhsZ3BlBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMwRjb2xvA2FjMgR2dGlkA0Y5NDVfOTc-/SIG=123fdr3fs/EXP=1262557296/**http%3a//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remington_Model_11

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Here ya’ go,,,

Just remove the barrel,,,

Note the info on the Placement of friction rings for

functioning with different ammo,,,

I just wipe mine down with very LITTLE lite oil and

wipe it Dry,,,

The one I have is below SN 360,000...

P.S. : Don’t mash your fingers !...;0)

[elcid1970]

The aroma of Hoppe’s #9 also does a lot for a gun room.

But beware the stench of Birchwood-Casey stock stain. Or very old Outers walnut stain. Not just the bottles but the rags too.

They will stink up the entire house. Not helpful for domestic tranquillity. Best used outside.

;^)

[NVDave]

That’s why I dis-recommend trying to take it down with normal screwdrivers which will invariably mash up some of the original screws. It is an heirloom in your family, and while the “market value” among “serious collectors” might not be very high, to YOU the value is “priceless.”

The A5 semi-auto design was rather complicated as semi-auto shotguns are seen today. They were very reliable in their day and today the only downside of them is that they’re not as simple and easy to repair as some semi-autos. There’s nothing wrong with them, however, and properly maintained, you’ll enjoy many years of use from a M-11 or A5.

If you ever go into that M-11, you’ll want a big clean work area, and you’ll want little pans into which you’ll put all the parts - there will be small screws, pins, springs, etc that will come out of that action, seemingly by the bushel-full. The other thing about the A5/M-11 is that they depended upon the “Blish effect” - ie, the friction between dissimilar metals under high pressure or speed. In the M-11 and A5, there is a “friction ring” which rides on the magazine tube to soak up some of the recoil of the bolt being moved to the rear during the cycling. You don’t want to over-lube that ring - it is supposed to have some friction (”sticktion” really) to slow down the bolt’s speed to the rear. You never, ever want to operate the gun without that bronze friction ring in the gun, because the bolt will fly rearward with enough force to possibly crack the receiver (eg, with magnum loads).

You want to be careful about losing parts, because I rather doubt that you can find replacements from Remington any more. If you lose a part that is difficult for a machinist or ‘smith to replicate, it could become a wall-hanger until you buy a whole ‘nuther M-11 to use as a shop queen for parts.

[NVDave]

If you’re ever looking for a field gun at a reasonable price (ie, keep the M-11 where it is dry and clean, and take your “field” scattergun out hunting), check out the Beretta A390/A391 shotguns. They’re semi-auto, gas-operated, simple as a rock (like four pieces in the gas mechanism) and they’re about $900 to $1000 new in most places. Watch for them on sale or used. You can get chokes and parts for them all day long, they’re reliable, simple guns and I can personally attest that they survive the most grueling conditions into which I’ve put them. When mine ceased to cycle properly from too much of Nevada’s talc-fine dust, I simply poured in some Delo 15W40 diesel motor oil, shook it out, racked the bolt a couple times and ignored it for another year.

They’re indestructible scatterguns for which you can find OEM and aftermarket parts at reasonable prices, and they’ll handle 3” magnum loads.

[Raven6]

Blueflag,

I looked this up in my NRA Guide to Firearms Assembly (1980). The trigger group on this old gun doesn't come out as a unit, but rather, in pieces at a time, and can be a real challenge if you aren't sure what you are doing. I have some instructions below that might help you. NOW... If you are like me and like to store history information with your firearms, cut and paste this information to a blank page, then print it out for safe keeping:

*****
"In 1900, John M. Browning was granted U. S. Patent No. 659.507 for a locked-breech, long recoil operated semi-automatic shotgun mechanism. Browning first offered this design to Winchester Repeating Arms Co., as he had done with his arms designs in previous years, but on a royalty basis instead of outright sale as had been his practice. The parties could not reach an agreement, and Browning terminated his 17-year relationship with Winchester.

At that time, no other American arms maker was in a position to produce this shotgun, so Browning went to Belgium where he arranged for its manufacture by Fabrique Nationale d'Armes de Guerre in Liege. Initial production by the FN firm was in 1903.

In 1905 Remington Arms Co. was licensed to manufacture the Browning shotgun in this country. It was introduced that year as the Remington Model 11 and was offered in 12-, 16-, and 20-ga. and in several grades with various barrel lengths and chokes.

The Model 11 No. 0 Riot Grade shotgun with 18 1/2" barrel in 12-ga. only was offered the following year.

The Model 11 Police Special with 18 1/2" barrel in 12-ga. only was introduced in 1921. The barrel was especially bored for buckshot loads and the gun was furnished with sling swivels.

Remington's Model 11 Riot gun was also introduced in 1921. It was furnished with 20" cylinder-bored barrel in 12-, 16-, and 20-ga.

A 3-shot version of the Model 11 was introduced in 1931. Designated Sportsman Model, it was available in various barrel lengths and grades in 12-, 16-, and 20-ga.

Production of the Model 11 shotgun terminated in 1948 and was replaced the following year by the Model 11-48."
*****

If the shotgun is operating properly otherwise, I would not detail strip it (dis-assembly of entire trigger group) for cleaning - just field strip and then the following:

Now, depending upon how well it has been taken care of in the past, the trigger group may or may not be full of dust, grime, and dirt that is attracted to the same oil that was used to lubricated it. This is what I do on any shotgun trigger group that is suffering from what I call "gunk syndrome" in order to avoid completely disassembling it (sometimes though, you have to 'bite the bullet' and take it apart - avoid this if you have the least bit out doubt, and I mean even the tiniest bit, about whether or not you will be able to get the trigger group reassembled): Buy a can of Birchwood-Casey Gunscrubber... Hose the entire trigger group down, work the action for about a minute to get the Gunscrubber everywhere it needs to be, let it sit for 30 minutes or so, then repeat. Upon the second application (and BTW, the pressure from the can of Gunscrubber will blow quite a bit of gunk out of the assembly, so do this in an area that will not get you in trouble with the Mrs. BEWARE OF FLYING GUNK AS IT WILL STAIN CARPET! I KNOW THIS TO BE TRUE!) you should be making some headway in getting the group clean. I also use canned air from the office supply house to blow the gunk out. Now, canned air can introduce moisture, so I apply another strong round of Gunscrubber just after the canned air. Once clean, I let the Gunscrbber evaporate and then I use Breakfree CLP as the final lubricant. If this type of treatment won't do the trick, it is dis-assembly time... I have only had one semi-auto shotgun cross my bench that the above treatment didn't fix - it was a Remington 1100 that someone had evidently dropped in a nasty puddle of mud while duck hunting. The mud had turned to hard clay...

"Pride goeth before a fall..." My grandmother used to tell me that one all the time when I wouldn't listen to her or my grandfather's sage advise... So, if you have any doubts about working on a firearm, make sure that pride doesn't talk you into something that you will be embarrased about later. I can't count the number of firearms I've had to reassemble for folks that thought they wouldn't have any trouble with a complete dis-assembly "just because they wanted to make sure it was 100% clean" and then couldn't get it back together. They can almost never look you in the eye when they bring one in to you in Ziploc bags for reassembly. I try not to give them a hard time unless they have always exhibited a "know-it-all" attitude when I've dealt with them previously. :-)

Unless you are going to be loading up hot 00 Buck loads or heavy slug loads, I wouldn't worry too much about the shotgun, unless it shows signs of prior abuse. If the bore is not pitted, and the stock is not cracked at the wrist, you are probably just fine with any kind of game load short of heavy, maximum, goose-killer loads (and I would venture to say that you wouldn't even run into any problems then unless you were trying to go through a full case of shells in one day.)

Hope this helps!

Regards,
Raven6

[barb-tex]

After the divorce, Winchester produced possibly the worst shotgun ever, the Model 1911SL. Similar in operation to the A5, wherever Winchester could evade JMB’s patents. The 1911SL lacked a bolt handle, replaced by a knurled grip on the barrel.To operate the action one must pull the whole action back, being sure to remember to push the bolt retainer as the action wouldn’t stay open. The modeel I had was a takedown model. It had a laminated stock, I can’t guess why.
barbra ann

[thackney]

Bookmark for more info for my own Model 11.

[SuziQ]

Ping?

[Swordmaker]

After the divorce, Winchester produced possibly the worst shotgun ever, the Model 1911SL. Similar in operation to the A5, wherever Winchester could evade JMB’s patents. The 1911SL lacked a bolt handle, replaced by a knurled grip on the barrel.To operate the action one must pull the whole action back, being sure to remember to push the bolt retainer as the action wouldn’t stay open. The modeel I had was a takedown model. It had a laminated stock, I can’t guess why.

Ah, the infamous Winchester Model 1911 "Widow Maker" Self Loading shotgun... too many people tried to cock the action by putting the gun butt down on the ground or on the toe of their boot and pushing down on the barrel with the knurled barrel... while leaning over the gun... only to have it not lock back, slam forward, and discharge... into their chests. Result? One dead idiot.

Winchester Model 1911 "Widow Maker" Self Loading Semi-Automatic Shotgun

Needless to say, the Winchester model 1911SL is a rare shotgun... not made for long and even fewer were kept. When I was in the gun business, we would not sell them as operational shotguns... sold as "Collector's Items only." If we sold them at all, we pulled the firing pins (sold with the guns, but not in the guns, and required the buyer to sign that the pin was removed) before delivery to render them non-operational, because they were just too dangerous, and the liability was too great.

[300winmag]

Ping?

The advice is all good. It's a complex system, especially being the first of its kind. Later gas-operated autoloaders had fewer parts, and were easier to build and maintain.

Just as a point of historical interest, here's my early-WW2-vintage Model 11 riot gun. Remington used up all the checkered stocks and roll-engraved receivers before going with plain ones later in production.

This one is "The Sportsman", which had a two-shot magazine tube for waterfowl hunting, rather than the four-shot magazine. It was not usually made as a riot gun, but the government was desperate for shotguns, so Remington made both three and five-shot versions to use up the parts on hand before going over to the "mil-spec" version.

Since it used commercial parts, it had the commercial blue finish, still visible on the underside of the barrel, where the forearm shielded the finish from the elements.

Remington was so concerned that the troops, as possible future Remington customers, would look down on the parkerized finish of the later riot guns that they marked the left side of the receiver with "Remington Military Finish" so you couldn't mistake them from their fine commercial bluing. The military markings consisted of a "US" on the receiver, and a ordnance "flaming bomb" on the receiver and top of the barrel. As with all trench guns and riot guns, the barrel was only 20 inches, and cylinder bored.

[OKSooner]

"I don’t intend to hunt with a scatter gun."

Don't know what part of the country you live in, but if you're not going "upland bird hunting", with a trained dog, you're missing out. You'll forget all about waterfowl. :)

[Blueflag]

Wow! Many thanks for the thorough reply. Very helpful.

FWIW, I got the ‘11 to an arguably clean enough state; got the action will lubed and smooth, set the friction ring per the factory recommendation ... and then waited til a little after noon today (finally got above freezing) and fired 10 rounds of #8 Winchester Dove & Quail. Worked just fine, thank you all very much.

So now the heirloom is re-cleaned, lubed and wiped in the gun rack in the master closet.

[wagglebee]

Take it to a trusted ‘smith’ for the work. A good smithie will check the action as well as the bore and primary firing mechanism.

And a good gunsmith will also clean it for around fifty bucks and sit down and show you how to strip and reassemble it.

Also, there are usually some older gentlemen hanging around just about any gun shop or range who could strip and reassemble a Remington model 11 blindfolded.

[Blueflag]

you’re probably right. I like to enjoy the ‘outdoor’ experience as much as the hunting, so any type of static hunting is uninteresting to me. Following a bird dog to flush out game probably would be fun. Never did it. But that’s what my dad used to do with this gun and his short-haired pointers.

Good idea. I’ll keep it in mind, as I have a friend with 100s of acres of private land down south of Fort Benning, GA.

[Blueflag]

My dad’s gun (now mine) has a four shot magazine, even though it’s the civilian finish (not Parkerized). He used to keep a wooden plug in the magazine so he could comply with the three shell rule in place in Wisconsin, and have one round in the chamber and two in the tube.

[Blueflag]

BTW, I never had any intent to detail strip the ‘11. I’d be in the plastic baggie mode you mentioned ;-)

I might do that with a British Leyland motor, but never a British Leyland overdrive transmission for the same reasons.