Posted on 11/26/2009 10:19:55 AM PST by dynachrome
What I think about secession basically is that it is a consummation devoutly to be wished, but a dangerous pursuit to advocate publicly. Janet Napolitano and the alphabet soup guys do not take kindly to the notion of freedom in any way, and for the precise reason that Abraham Lincoln did not. When asked why he didn’t just let the South go, Lincoln exploded in a rage, “Let the South go? LET THE SOUTH GO? How, then, should I fill my coffers?”
Documented historical fact. Look it up for yourselves. Winners write history and the North/Leftists have had nearly 160 years to spin their propaganda, but the fact is that the South was the wealthy portion of the country back then. Cotton was, indeed, king, the Feds had gotten themselves into monetary trouble, and bankruptcy was imminent! The back room Congressional brawls were over whether to declare the USA closed at the Mississippi and raise taxes, or to hit tariffs even harder to benefit their factories and shipping businesses, improving their bottom lines and increasing tax revenues. Greed and tariffs won. Hit the South for the enrichment of the North. Hit those who produced cane, corn, and cotton for the benefit of those who consumed and controlled shipping and rail transport and to increase federal control.
(Excerpt) Read more at whiskeyandgunpowder.com ...
Lincoln wasn't just "some guy". Here is a quote from Wendell Phillips, the chairman of the Republican party"
This state of things is just what we have attempted to bring about. It is the first sectional party ever organized in this country. It does not know its own face and calles itself national; but it is not national - it is sectional. The Republican party is a party of the North pledged against the South.
After 1860 the South lost control of both the presidency and congress to a party that had pledged to take the Northern side in every issue under contention (yes, including slavery). So why stay in the Union? They had only joined to begin with because they thought there would be mutual benefit. Why not just leave? It's the civil, peaceful thing to do.
Ooops, I goofed - more Americans were killed in WWII than the Civil War (but not by a huge amount). Given the populations and technology involved, though, the surprise is how close the casualities were...
The North didn’t fire the first shot. The South did steal military bases that didn’t rightfully belong to it.
True, but Lincoln did everything he could to promote that incident, then bragged about having do so. Though he quickly shut up when four more states seceded as a result of it. BTW, Fort Sumter was mainly a tariff enforcement post.
Well then I'd say the South has gotten its revenge: more Southern than Northern states get more money back from the federal government than they chip in. I live in NJ, and for every $1 New Jerseyans send to DC, we get between 60 and 65 cents back (sucks to be us).
So the South may have not won the war, but they keep winning from the federal ATM machine.
Info on taxes here
And the losers write the myths, as this post so aptly demonstrates.
ROTFLMAO!!!! That's like the Japanese saying that World War II consisted entirely of the nuking of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
There were four Declarations of the Causes of Secession and they all prominently cite slavery as their reason for rebelling.
The constant fallacy in these debates is in conflating secession with the cause of the war in the first place. The war was entirely a Northern project and the North pursued the war for its own ends, slavery not being among them.
So what you're saying is that Lincoln tricked the confederacy into war and that the Southern leadership was too stupid to see through his trap? Doesn't say much about them, does it?
Actually it freed all those in the areas covered by the Proclamation. It just took a while before many could take advantage of their freedom.
ping
mark for later
Do you honestly believe the nonsense you spout? It was an army fort, not a customs house.
BS! Texas didn’t even secede until after the Kansas massacre by the fomenting abolitionists. That’s why they put slavery in their document. In fact, Texans were already pissed that they’d been sending taxes to Washington DC and were receiving no help (sound familiar?) whatsoever against the border raids across the Rio Grande! The feds put one puny unit at Fort Davis! Texas seceded legally because they had no use whatsoever for Washington DC!
In fact, Lincoln in his arrogance and greed didn’t care what anyone else thought...he didn’t care that 3.5% of the population would be killed off in his Civil War...not to mention that Lincoln was a total racist who touted that slaves should be free, but should never consider themselves equal to whites,should not intermarry, NOR SHOULD THEY EVER BE ABLE TO HOLD PUBLIC OFFICE! His big idea was to round the Africans up and put them on ships outta here!
Lincoln was a predator, and he wanted the wealth of the tariffs from south because his industrial north could not compete with a wealthy south whose coastal border was vast and who had the corner on world trade shipping!
Wrong.
The American Civil War was the deadliest war in American history, resulting in the deaths of 620,000 soldiers and an undetermined number of civilian casualties.
In compaison, 418,500 Americans (incl. 416,800 military personnel and 1,700 civilians) died as a result of World War II.
Regards,
Hmm, looked it up again and see you were right. Guess I was wrong about being wrong in my original post. Do two wrongs make a right here? LOL
PS Thanks for the correction.
..and at least fifty cents of that dollar are applied, directly or indirectly, against your freedom and prosperity.
Not to mention that states in the NORTH were still holding freaking slaves!!!! Just like the typical hypocrite!
Both sides write myths, as I'm sure you will quickly demonstrate.
ROTFLMAO!!!! That's like the Japanese saying that World War II consisted entirely of the nuking of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
Then I must have missed something in WWII. What American base on Japanese soil did the Japanese attack after asking us many times to leave?
There were four Declarations of the Causes of Secession and they all prominently cite slavery as their reason for rebelling.
The relevant legal declarations were called "Ordinances of Secession". Every state published one. Three mention slavery as a cause - South Carolina, Mississippi, and Texas. See Ordinances of Secession of the 13 Confederate States of America
So what you're saying is that Lincoln tricked the confederacy into war and that the Southern leadership was too stupid to see through his trap? Doesn't say much about them, does it?
Lincoln said this himself. But as to who wasn't very smart -- four more states seceded after Sumter so I don't think Lincoln was very smart either.
Actually it freed all those in the areas covered by the Proclamation. It just took a while before many could take advantage of their freedom.
And what did the proclamation do for the thousands of blacks captured behind Union lines and concentrated into Benjamin Butler's "contraband camps" - where they were starved, left to die of disease, charged with vagrancy and forced to perform free labor? The Emancipation Proclamation was merely a war measure designed to disrupt the Southern economy. I believe you had something to say about myths?
Do you honestly believe the nonsense you spout? It was an army fort, not a customs house.
No it wasn't a customs house. It was the control point for Charleston Harbor. It's guns covered every ship entering or leaving. Its main use during peacetime was as a threat to any ship attempting to avoid the port authorities.
This mess all started because of that unpleasantness with your Majesty, the Good King George III. Had a few agitators and rabble-rousers not been able to force the nation into revolution, there would have been no NEED for a civil war to abolish slavery.
I call for rapprochement with the United Kingdom, posthaste.
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