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May Be "Impossible" To Tell Runner's Sex (South African Champ's Backers Call Probe Racist, Sexist)
CBS News ^ | Aug. 22, 2009

Posted on 08/24/2009 10:12:12 PM PDT by nickcarraway

Expert: Tests Extra-Complicated and Could Well Prove Inconclusive; South African Champ's Backers Call Probe Racist, Sexist

South Africans planned to rally in support of track champion Caster Semenya - celebrating her win in the 800 meters at the world championship, and denouncing questions about whether she should be allowed to compete as a woman as racist and sexist.

The International Amateur Athletic Federation (IAAF) has initiated gender tests on Semenya. The tests are expected to take weeks to complete. They are extremely complex, involving a physical medical evaluation and including reports from a gynecologist, endocrinologist, psychologist, internal medicine specialist and gender expert.

And, said Sports Illustrated staff writer and track and field expert David Epstein on "The Early Show Saturday Edition," they may never even yield a definite answer about Semenya's gender.

"It's something that's gone on in track and field before, and it's difficult because, in track and field, you want to be able to categorize competitors as male or female, but biologically, it's not as black and white as you might want it to be for competition," Epstein told co-anchor Chris Wragge.

"(The IAAF) used to do this regularly," Epstein continued, "and they gave it up in 1991 because it's not very clear-cut. They will do it when, you know, some of her rivals said rude things, you know, 'Just take a look at her.' She came out of nowhere, she blew everybody away, and everybody doesn't like being blown away, so the IAAF had to respond some way, basically, so this is their response."

Epstein added, "The reason IAAF got rid of (gender testing) and the International Olympic Committee ... got rid it is because, in some ways, it's kind of impossible. Genetically, you can't even look at someone's chromosomes. There are women who have XY chromosomes, which would normally be for a male; there are testosterone levels that are all over the place. Genitalia can be ambiguous or doesn't determine sex necessarily. So, there really is no clear-cut way to tell.

"The medical community has said you can't always tell the difference between a male and a female, so I don't know how IAAF, unless they come up with an arbitrary standard, is going to tell. But we'll hear something.

"What they certainly will find out is if she's masquerading -- a man masquerading as a woman. That would be clearly cheating."

While the testing cloud hovers over Semenya, Athletics South Africa, track's national governing body, on Friday invited reporters to welcome the nation's athletes home from Tuesday's championships in Berlin.

The youth wing of the governing African National Congress said its president Julius Malema would lead a welcome rally for "South Africa's golden girl," saying Friday that Semenya "should be celebrated by all South Africans, despite attempts by the IAAF to humiliate her."

The ANC women's league said its leaders would be at airport, too, and that other members would hold protests across South Africa on Tuesday. The women's league said questions about Semenya's gender "suggest that women can only perform to a certain level and that those who exceed this level should be men."

Butana Komphela, chairman of a parliamentary sports committee, cited both sexism and racism in a statement Friday. The South African Press Association quoted him as saying Friday that his committee would soon lodge a complaint with the U.N. Commissioner of Human Rights asking for an investigation into the IAAF's "gross and severe undermining" of Semenya's rights and privacy.

"Just because she is black and she surpassed her European competitors, there is all this uproar," Khompela was quoted as saying.

Race is never far from sport in South Africa, where apartheid leaders lavished money and attention on sports embraced by the white minority such as rugby and cricket, while black players and fans languished in dilapidated stadiums. Soccer is seen as the sport of blacks, and excitement over South Africa becoming the first African nation to host a soccer World Cup have been tempered by charges from some blacks that white South Africans didn't support the bid and won't go to the games.

The head of the South African track federation, Leonard Chuene, was among those raising race in the Semenya case.

"It would not be like that if it were some young girl from Europe," Chuene told the AP by telephone. "If it was a white child, she would be sitting somewhere with a psychologist, but this is an African child."

The teenager's stunning and recent improvement in times, along with her muscular build and deep voice, sparked speculation about her gender.

Hours before she won the 800 final Wednesday, the IAAF confirmed a complex set of gender tests was under way.

The IAAF has been criticized in South Africa and elsewhere for going public, particularly given 18-year-old Semenya's youth and inexperience.


TOPICS: Health/Medicine; Science; Sports
KEYWORDS: athletes; genetics; sex; sexdifferences; southafrica; sports
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To: nickcarraway

Does she have a Cowper’s gland and a Prostrate Gland?


21 posted on 08/24/2009 11:35:29 PM PDT by Jet Jaguar
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To: NMR Guy

you might do your homework before making that assertion.
Look up androgen insensitivity, and mosaicism among a host of genetic disorders.


22 posted on 08/24/2009 11:35:34 PM PDT by MrEdd (Heck? Geewhiz Cripes, thats the place where people who don't believe in Gosh think they aint going.)
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To: nickcarraway

Is anyone feeling the desire to have a committee run health care?????


23 posted on 08/24/2009 11:40:04 PM PDT by politicalmerc (If Birthers are so silly, then why not show the BC and put them to shame?)
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To: nickcarraway
Butana Komphela, chairman of a parliamentary sports committee, cited both sexism and racism in a statement Friday.

How the heck do they get "racism" out of this one?

24 posted on 08/24/2009 11:40:09 PM PDT by Cementjungle
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To: KarlInOhio

Interestingly enough, “her” name is an anagram.

Caster Semenya

” A secret man. Yes”


25 posted on 08/24/2009 11:42:18 PM PDT by Kozak (USA 7/4/1776 to 1/20/2009 Reqiescat in Pace)
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To: outhousepatrol
Caster Semenya = CASTRATED SEMENYA

Actually it's

Caster Semenya = "A SECRET MAN. YES"
26 posted on 08/24/2009 11:44:06 PM PDT by Kozak (USA 7/4/1776 to 1/20/2009 Reqiescat in Pace)
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To: fireman15
Does Obama have an adams apple?
27 posted on 08/24/2009 11:47:58 PM PDT by MaxMax (Will the real JIM THOMPSON please pick up the white phone)
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To: MaxMax

“Does Obama have an adams apple?”
It’s pretty hard to spot in most photos. I am not sure that it is original equipment.


28 posted on 08/24/2009 11:54:11 PM PDT by fireman15 (Check your facts before making ignorant statements.)
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To: se_ohio_young_conservative
When I was a kid on the farm, we use to just turn the kittens upside down and we could tell pretty quick what caliber they were. This world is so dam mixed up now, its pretty bad when you can't tell when someone is male or female.
29 posted on 08/25/2009 3:06:31 AM PDT by depenzz (Make the best of life, its not a dress rehearsal)
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To: nickcarraway
Genetically, you can't even look at someone's chromosomes. There are women who have XY chromosomes, which would normally be for a male; there are testosterone levels that are all over the place.

A person who does not have XX chromosomes is not a woman, and should be excluded from womens competition, but may compete in mens competitions.

30 posted on 08/25/2009 3:21:54 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 (Public healthcare looks like it will work as well as public housing did.)
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To: nickcarraway

31 posted on 08/25/2009 6:09:08 AM PDT by JRios1968 (The real first rule of Fight Club: don't invite Chuck Norris...EVER)
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To: nickcarraway

DNA tests take less than an hour. (I watch CSI!) ;-P

(Yes, that’s sarcasm)


32 posted on 08/25/2009 6:20:09 AM PDT by MortMan (Stubbing one's toes is a valid (if painful) way of locating furniture in the dark.)
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To: nickcarraway
“Genetically, you can't even look at someone’s chromosomes.”

Ummmm. YES. Yes you CAN. Does ‘she’ have a barr body from an extra X chromosome or not?

The chromosomal defects that would cause a ‘woman’ to fail a barr body test are XY females and XO Turner syndrome; neither of which is likely to be an olympic level athlete.

If this ‘woman’ is ambiguously sexed, she obviously has higher testosterone than a woman and should not be able to compete with women.

If this is a man, then ‘he’ should be stripped of his medals.

33 posted on 08/25/2009 6:24:47 AM PDT by allmendream (Income is EARNED not distributed, so how could it be redistributed?)
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To: Jet Jaguar

Or Adam’s apple?


34 posted on 08/25/2009 6:27:15 AM PDT by Lizavetta (In Communism everything is free. But there isn't any of it.)
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To: MrEdd
An XY female (due to insensitivity to testosterone) is unlikely to be an Olympic level athlete and it is ridiculous to postulate that this is the runner's genotype.

XY females have no secondary body hair, abnormally large breasts, and are slightly mentally retarded on average.

It is obvious that this runner is NOT insensitive to testosterone, in fact if ‘she’ is indeed a ‘she’, then ‘she’ seems to have quite a lot of it.

35 posted on 08/25/2009 6:28:39 AM PDT by allmendream (Income is EARNED not distributed, so how could it be redistributed?)
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To: Kozak; outhousepatrol
Caster Semenya = CASTRATED SEMENYA Actually it's Caster Semenya = "A SECRET MAN. YES"

It's obvious, SEMENYA.............Semen? Ya!

36 posted on 08/25/2009 6:35:21 AM PDT by OB1kNOb (Extreme right-winged mob terrorist astroturfing bitter clinging racist birther evilmongering wingnut)
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To: nickcarraway

A physical exam...a DNA test...and a blood/tissue test for steroids should clear things up.And for the record,it’s not racist or sexist any more than it was for the “women” of East Germany,Bulgaria,etc during the 70s and 80s.


37 posted on 08/25/2009 6:38:42 AM PDT by Gay State Conservative (Christian+Veteran=Terrorist)
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To: nickcarraway

She improved her personal best time in the 800m by 7 seconds in just 9 months.

That just doesn’t happen. Not at this level of competition.

This looks to me like a clearcut case that she is doping BIGTIME, not so much that she’s a man. Massive testosterone injections would also explain the coarsened features, the facial hair, and the deepened voice.


38 posted on 08/25/2009 6:46:31 AM PDT by Terabitten (Vets wrote a blank check, payable to the Constitution, for an amount up to and including their life.)
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To: KarlInOhio

Aftermarket? You can get one of them things from J.C. Whitney?


39 posted on 08/25/2009 7:40:33 AM PDT by Lx
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To: Lx

40 posted on 08/25/2009 7:47:51 AM PDT by abb ("What ISN'T in the news is often more important than what IS." Ed Biersmith, 1942 -)
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