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is reading at the table considered bad manners?
conservativecave ^ | July 16, 2009 | franksolich

Posted on 07/16/2009 7:47:15 AM PDT by franksolich

Much to my disconcertment, last night (Wednesday night), a local dowager had complained about my "bad manners" of reading while dining with nine other people; not to me--she had complained to friends of mine.

I was reading the Encyclopedia Americana, specifically the entries about the silkworm industry in France during the 1840s, while everybody else was yik-yakking away.

Of course, there's a practical matter here; too many people, too much light and movement, too much color, which to me is "noise," and so I can't keep track of what's being said, or what I think's being said.

What is one to do? Chew on his food and twiddle his thumbs?

Actually, it's a cultural thing.

It was always de rigeuer that the family dine together, breakfast, lunch, supper, when I was a little lad alongside the Platte River of Nebraska, and an adolescent thriving in the Sandhills of Nebraska.

(Excerpt) Read more at conservativecave.com ...


TOPICS: Books/Literature; Food; History; Society
KEYWORDS: courtesy; dining; manners; reading
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To: franksolich

>>>>I was reading the Encyclopedia Americana, specifically the entries about the silkworm industry in France during the 1840s,<<<<<<

Wait...what?
I’m sorry. I am afraid we can’t be friends anymore.


41 posted on 07/16/2009 9:00:21 AM PDT by envisio (Sexual Beer & BBQ Ribs)
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To: ottbmare

So... farting at the table would be rude too, huh?

Damn, I was wondering why everyone left out of the breakroom. I thought they were all impressed by my ability to stuff 12 chicken wings in my mouth at once. But then I had to let one rip and everyone left. ugh.


42 posted on 07/16/2009 9:05:01 AM PDT by envisio (Sexual Beer & BBQ Ribs)
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To: envisio; domenad; ThisLittleLightofMine; chesley; AppyPappy; ctdonath2; Locomotive Breath; ...

Okay, folks, here it is, as posted at the original site:

I have “standard operating procedures” for situations requiring communication, and I’m here describing those situations in particular where one is dining; for other situations not involving dining, I have other procedures.

If dining with only one person, I never read. I give my full attention to that person; this is after all the situation I prefer, one-on-one, and if available in a booth (rather than at a table) in an obscure corner of the restaurant, where there is less “noise” from clutter, motion, light, and color.

In those instances, I never read, not even the headline of a newspaper.

However, there is a newly-evolving problem, and I might have to change the standard operating procedures here, with the advent and prolific use of cellular telephones. I am constantly amazed at how routinely—as if it’s no big deal—and automatically people, upon hearing their cellular telephone ring, stop in mid-conversation to chitchat on it.

Here I am, burning my brain, using a tremendous effort of both intellectual and physical gymnastics, to give this other person my full attention; to ensure that I am accurately “getting” what’s being said.

BlueStateSaint here keeps egging me on about purchasing a revolver, which of course is going to happen sooner or later, just to piss off the anti-Second Amendment bigots, but I’m still doing target practice. The “goal” is to learn how to shoot a hole into a cellular telephone without hurting anybody.

If dining with two people, I never read. Sometimes it seems to me it would be better if I did, but I don’t. Everybody tells their problems to the bartender; for reasons mysterious to me, bartenders in turn share their troubles with me.

In the case of dining with two people, the two people are usually a married couple or two good friends of each other, who much to my dismay have a habit of “letting their hair down” when around me, as if I’m supposed to adjudicate differences between them.

Or perhaps they simply just want to out-drama-queen each other in front of an audience.

I have no idea why I attract such situations, but I do.

Damn, I hate it when that happens.

If dining with three people, it becomes a great big grey area, but usually no. it all depends upon how well the three people get along with each other, in relation to myself. Probably about 10% of the time—I’m only guessing here—I do it, but most nearly all the time I don’t.

If invited to dine with four or more people, I respectfully “decline” about 75% of the time, accepting just enough invitations to keep me socially viable. I usually read at the table, but it depends upon the nature of the other company.

The one being complained about had nine other people there, three of whom are very good friends, and the other six more than acquaintances, but less than friends. These were mostly affluent people whose main interest of the night was Pa Kettle in the White House’s attempts to run the cattle industry into the ground.

My sentiments matched theirs, and they knew my sentiments matched theirs, and I had nothing new or interesting to contribute, so read instead.

This is a life that, really, tries to avoid such situations.


43 posted on 07/16/2009 10:21:38 AM PDT by franksolich (Scourge of the Primitives, in service to humanity)
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To: franksolich

Being deaf, you can respond, “Yes, of course he did.” or “I don’t see why you put up with that!” or “Go ahead, I think it’s a great idea!” at random intervals, thus wreaking havoc among the personal lives of your acquaintances.

(h/t to my father, who uses this technique on the grandchildren.)


44 posted on 07/16/2009 10:29:17 AM PDT by Tax-chick (When God-fearing women get the blues ... Free Republic!)
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To: franksolich

Invited to dine?

You mean like eating? Can’t says I get that much. What with the gasoline smell on my shirt and the cow manure on my boots.

Invited to dine.......
Nope, it don’t register.


45 posted on 07/16/2009 10:29:28 AM PDT by envisio (Sexual Beer & BBQ Ribs)
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To: Tax-chick

LOL I do that. I am not 100% deaf but its well know I can’t hear well.

I say:
“five” or “Just rub a little salve on it” or “no it was a purple elephant”


46 posted on 07/16/2009 10:36:57 AM PDT by envisio (Sexual Beer & BBQ Ribs)
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To: franksolich

If you feel the need to read, that is your signal that you should not be there. It would be better than you be at home by yourself than for you to read when socializing with others.


47 posted on 07/16/2009 10:40:51 AM PDT by AppyPappy (If you aren't part of the solution, there is good money to be made prolonging the problem.)
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To: franksolich
Frank,

I didn't see this part when I clicked to read the rest over at the other site so I must have overlooked it.

When you read at the table you really aren't there anyway because you're engrossed in the book. People who are only acquaintances won't understand why you'd accept the invitation but then check out there at the table.

Another solution might be to enjoy your meal with these people (not reading) and once you've finished your meal, say your farewells and leave. A short explanation prior to going out as to why you'll be leaving once you've eaten would be socially acceptable.

I don't know whether all of the white noise you would be subjected to would preclude you from conversing with your immediate seatmates. If so then excusing yourself after you've eaten would be the route I'd follow if I was in your situation. You've already effectively done that mentally when you pull out your book and start to read.

As far as the cell phone idiots...I'd probably tell them prior to sitting down that I'd prefer they turn off their phones during dinner as it created havoc with you when there are interruptions in conversation.

48 posted on 07/16/2009 10:55:52 AM PDT by Sally'sConcerns (http://www.fda.gov/emaillist.html - Class I (life threatening) recalls email alert sign-up)
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To: KYGrandma

I think “Miss Manners” would condone of such activity.


49 posted on 07/16/2009 11:02:11 AM PDT by An.American.Expatriate (Here's my strategy on the War against Terrorism: We win, they lose. - with apologies to R.R.)
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To: franksolich

If you are dining alone, I don’t see any problem. If it is an informal cafe setting by two people who are working their way through school texts or the newspaper, again I don’t see a problem.

In a formal gathering (9 people) it is considered bad manners. But then, it is also rude to be neglecting some members of the dinner party while you go on and on and on long after the meal has concluded.


50 posted on 07/16/2009 11:05:12 AM PDT by a fool in paradise (There is no truth in the Pravda Media.)
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To: franksolich

To that I can only repeat:

If you take the time to dine with someone, you must also take the time to converse with that someone - even if it is empty small talk. If you want to read - stay at home in your study, or go to the library.

You claim you decline invitations to large dinners “75%” of the time - the rest you accept to remain “socially viable” - how exactly do you remain viable while keeping your nose in a book at the table?


51 posted on 07/16/2009 11:06:31 AM PDT by An.American.Expatriate (Here's my strategy on the War against Terrorism: We win, they lose. - with apologies to R.R.)
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To: Sally'sConcerns
It’s different when you’re sharing a meal with immediate family

My momma would have slapped me upside the head.

52 posted on 07/16/2009 11:11:24 AM PDT by Overtaxed (Later that night, 1789...)
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To: An.American.Expatriate

Just being there is a big part of socializing. Some people can have a great time together without directly talking. Those who invited him likely knew that conversation would be a problem for him, and he may be mentally elsewhere during the event, but still desired at least his presence.

Hey, if most of the 10 people at that table wanted him around and were OK with the situation, fine. Awfully, um, Leftist to recommend social exile due to a situation most of the participants were OK with.


53 posted on 07/16/2009 11:13:35 AM PDT by ctdonath2 (John Galt was exiled.)
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To: envisio

Many disastrous outcomes have been justified with, “But Grandad said we could!” But hey, at least he’s still alive ;-).


54 posted on 07/16/2009 11:34:00 AM PDT by Tax-chick (When God-fearing women get the blues ... Free Republic!)
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To: franksolich
Well, deafness definitely changes the equation, but it's still a bit rude. Why not just fake it? I mean, if your table-mates are liberals, simply popping up with, "Wow, that's a total crock of crap!" every few minutes will suffice for conversation and be pretty much guaranteed to be true no matter what they're saying. If you really want to have some fun have it pre-arranged with a friend there who says something like, "oh, he's deaf. What he probably thought you said was..." and have her repeat what they really did say. Act innocent. Look for red faces and bulging veins in the forehead. Success!
55 posted on 07/16/2009 11:51:29 AM PDT by Billthedrill
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To: An.American.Expatriate

Amen. Rude and boorish. Stay home.


56 posted on 07/16/2009 12:54:50 PM PDT by Hildy
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To: franksolich
I'm constantly criticized by my wife's family for reading in their presence as they consider it rude (none of them have read a book in their lives.) However, they will think nothing of sitting around the television for hours and hours at family events - somehow that's okay.

So if they are watching some inane crap on TV, I'm the rude one for cracking open a book while the rest of them gape slack-jawed at the TV all night!

57 posted on 07/16/2009 1:03:06 PM PDT by SamAdams76 (I am 62 days away from outliving Judy Garland)
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To: franksolich

If I had a cell phone turned on at the table, and it rang, I would answer it, because it could be the babysitter calling to say the kids are dead, or some other piece of important news that is time-sensitive (I realise that a call that the kids are dead would not be time-sensitive :-))

But if it was just a call to talk, I would cut it off and go back to my companion. Of course, I don’t use a cell phone for casual conversation or for work, because it just seems “too connected”, so the only purpose of my phone is for emergencies or for coordination with my family at theme parks.

There are times when I am in line and the “help” is on the phone, where I think I should call them on my cell phone to get better service.....


58 posted on 07/16/2009 3:14:34 PM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: ottbmare; franksolich; All

Do any of you know that Frank is profoundly deaf? He cannot take part in a multiple conversation when there is a lot of movement and visual distraction. It is difficult to lip read when people are eating, as well.

Frank, I only have a slight amount of age-related hearing loss, where I can hear the sound, but not always correctly interpret the content. It is much more difficult in a large group. I have the habit of reading while eating, as does my husband. We only do it when it is just the two of us. We will share what we are reading. After 35 years together, it is not essential to us to converse at every meal.

I suppose it is considered *rude*. I suppose the solution is to concentrate on the person closest to you, so you can see them and thus have a conversation. If they understand your hearing situation, you can ask them to repeat things for you, if necessary. When I am in a large group, I tend to concentrate on those closest to me, rather than attempt to understand what is being said at the other end of the table and then having to almost shout to respond to them. My close friends, who are aware of my hearing loss, will actually get up from their place, walk over to me and _then_ say something directly to me. That is really appreciated and perhaps someone you know could let the woman who commented on your manners that, in your case, it was thoughtless of her to assume you could join in with all the members of that large a group, especially while eating.

Do you sign? My son had a profoundly deaf girlfriend at one time and they would carry on a side conversation in sign no matter what else was going on. She was proficient in lip reading and _she_ would tell him, in sign, to cut it out because _he_ was being rude and making it difficult for her to carry on other conversations!

Rudeness is where you find it, I guess.


59 posted on 07/16/2009 3:49:08 PM PDT by reformedliberal (Are we at high crimes or misdemeanors, yet?)
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To: franksolich

My vote is, it’s rude unless you are dining alone.


60 posted on 07/16/2009 3:54:55 PM PDT by Cyber Liberty (I AM JIM THOMPSON!)
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