Investigator casts doubt on Obama's birth residence

WND ^ | December 16, 2008 | Jerome R. Corsi

[ckilmer]

A private investigator has released to WND an affidavit that casts doubt on whether Barack Obama's family lived at the address listed in the published notice of his birth in 1961.

[dennisw]

I agree with you but once the BC gets opened up so will other records Barry has kept locked up. So much for that transparency bull crap

[Texas Fossil]

“If he was natural born he will always have US citizenship.”
—

Not necessarily.

There are two issues here. U.S. Citizenship and Natural Born U.S. Citizenship.

His parents were clearly not both U.S. Citizens. Most say that Natural Born U.S. Citizenship requires this. There were legal disputes about that being the qualifying factor with a Vice President. The courts position of this is a little unclear. It is clear that this was the “intent” of the framers of the constitution.

If he was born in Hawaii, he is a U.S. Citizen but not necessarily a Natural Born Citizen.

As far as citizenship being lost. That is possible, although it would have to be voluntary.

here are possible ways to loose citizenship:

http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_778.html

POTENTIALLY EXPATRIATING ACTS

Section 349 of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1481), as amended, states that U.S. citizens are subject to loss of citizenship if they perform certain specified acts voluntarily and with the intention to relinquish U.S. citizenship. Briefly stated, these acts include:

1. obtaining naturalization in a foreign state (Sec. 349 (a) (1) INA);

2. taking an oath, affirmation or other formal declaration to a foreign state or its political subdivisions (Sec. 349 (a) (2) INA);

3. entering or serving in the armed forces of a foreign state engaged in hostilities against the U.S. or serving as a commissioned or non-commissioned officer in the armed forces of a foreign state (Sec. 349 (a) (3) INA);

4. accepting employment with a foreign government if (a) one has the nationality of that foreign state or (b) an oath or declaration of allegiance is required in accepting the position (Sec. 349 (a) (4) INA);

5. formally renouncing U.S. citizenship before a U.S. diplomatic or consular officer outside the United States (sec. 349 (a) (5) INA);

6. formally renouncing U.S. citizenship within the U.S. (but only under strict, narrow statutory conditions) (Sec. 349 (a) (6) INA);

7. conviction for an act of treason (Sec. 349 (a) (7) INA).

—

DUAL NATIONALITY

Dual nationality can occur as the result of a variety of circumstances. The automatic acquisition or retention of a foreign nationality, acquired, for example, by birth in a foreign country or through an alien parent, does not affect U.S. citizenship. It is prudent, however, to check with authorities of the other country to see if dual nationality is permissible under local law.

Dual nationality can also occur when a person is naturalized in a foreign state without intending to relinquish U.S. nationality and is thereafter found not to have lost U.S. citizenship: the individual consequently may possess dual nationality.

While recognizing the existence of dual nationality and permitting Americans to have other nationalities, the U.S. Government also recognizes the problems which it may cause. Claims of other countries upon dual-national U.S. citizens often place them in situations where their obligations to one country are in conflict with the laws of the other. In addition, their dual nationality may hamper efforts to provide U.S. diplomatic and consular protection to them when they are abroad.

—

Now the question. Does Dual Citizenship disqualify a person from being a “Natural Born U.S. Citizen”?

[WhirlwindAttack]

If 0sambo is kicked out, and all the blacks go ballistics with rioting in every major US cities.

To quote Rage Against the Machine, Guerrilla Radio. "It has to start somewhere, it has to start sometime. What better place than here, what better time than now.".

I'm ready and I'm tired of Bull $hit.

[Texas Fossil]

If she gave birth in Kenya, he is not a natural born citizen.

Under those circumstances, not only would he not be a Natural Born U.S. Citizen, he would not be a U.S. Citizen at all.

[Vendome]

I agree with your post and if you look back through this thread you will see my immediate cynicism.

The neighbor thought the Obama’s lived somewhere else? Sure and she knew that how.

As to the rest of your post I agree and that also was a part my cynicism.

And to the joke about your handle, It was a play words and I was having a litle fun with you

[MilspecRob]

And just to simpify it. Yes, anyone born here but whose father is a foreign national is not a natural born citizen.

And that is found in the Constitution were?

[mrmeangenes]

I didn’t mind !

I generally get called worse !!

[ckilmer]

“The WND article says the owners of 6085 Kalanianaole Hwy were Orland S. and Thelma S. (Young) Lefforge.”

Are they still living?.................How about now?
...............
whoops got that wrong. They died only a couple weeks apart. The last just 10 days before the newspaper birth announcement was published online.

Star Bulletin - July 12

Thelma Young June 28, 2008 Thelma Young, 91, of Honolulu died. She was born in Trenton, N.J. She is survived by son Daniel Lefforge, daughters Andrea Harper and Mia Blake, three grandchildren and a great-grandchild. Private services.

Star Bulletin - July 28

Orland Scott Lefforge July 4, 2007 Orland Scott Lefforge, 91, of Honolulu, a University of Hawaii professor, died in Kaiser Medical Center. He was born in Pettisville, Ohio. He is survived by companion Thelma Young , son Daniel, daughters Andrea Harper and Mia Blake, brother Marian, three grandchildren and a great-grandchild. Services: 11 a.m. next Saturday at the courtyard of George Hall, University of Hawaii at Manoa. Casual attire.

[Texas Fossil]

Obama could have travelled on the passport of another country and even registered for school as a foreign national.

--

http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_778.html

POTENTIALLY EXPATRIATING ACTS

Section 349 of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1481), as amended, states that U.S. citizens are subject to loss of citizenship if they perform certain specified acts voluntarily and with the intention to relinquish U.S. citizenship.

1. obtaining naturalization in a foreign state (Sec. 349 (a) (1) INA);

2. taking an oath, affirmation or other formal declaration to a foreign state or its political subdivisions (Sec. 349 (a) (2) INA);

--

Most countries do not allow dual citizenship, but recognize it as something that happens in some cases at birth.

If he traveled on an Indonesian or Kenyan Passport, who did he obtain it. Did it require him to take an oath of allegiance? If so did it renounce all other citizenships?

If he registered in college as a foreign exchange student, he would have to submit proof. Did that proof end his U.S. citizenship?

[ckilmer]

A detroit radio station called the Kenyan embassy after the election of Obama. After a a few minutes they get through to the ambassador of Kenya.

The ambassador of Kenya says that obama was born in Kenya and that his birth place has become a national shrine.

Listen to the recording here

The quote is around 12:35, so if you don’t have time to listen to the whole thing, you can jump ahead.
The transcript reads:

Radio Jockey: President elect Obama's birth place over in Kenya -- is that going to be a national spot where he was born

Ambassador Peter Ogego: its already an attraction. his paternal grandmother is still alive

Radio Jockey:But his birth place...they'll put up a marker there

Ambassdor Peter Ogego: It would depend on the government. Its already well known.

Here is an abridged Utube version of the the radio interview. So you can hear just the relevant parts.

It can be reasonably pointed out that the DJ was trying to entrap the Ambassador and that the Ambassador fell into his trap.
However, if you listen to the long version of the radio interview --you’ll notice he used the same strategy on two different occasions and the ambassador gently brushed him off.

First, he tried to force the ambassador to sing the Kenyan national anthem. The ambassador referred him to the kenyan website.

Second he tried to push the ambassador into saying something about maybe Kenya becoming the 51st state. Again the ambassador said that Kenya was a sovereign country. ie No.

He used the same technique on the question of Obama’s birth place. This time the ambassador did not brush him off. Rather in answer to the question as to whether Obama was born in Kenya --he says "It is well known."

Because the ambassador answered no in the two previous examples -- you can't say that the ambassdor was either a fool or ill advised.

Finally, you might ask well doesn't he know that saying Obama is born in Kenya would make trouble for Obama? The answer there is why should he be concerned? He has heard no suggestion in the mainstream media that there might be a problem there. So to say what is already well known--as he says--would be no problem.

Here is a utube video of Ambassador Peter Ogego speaking at a conference. Ambassador of Kenya H.E. Peter Ogego To verify that the voice on the radio is Ambassador Ogego-- compare the radio voice with the DJ to the voice on the Utube that goes with Ambassador Ogego. Ambassador Peter Ogego is introduced a bit after minute 18..

They are the same.


Subsequently, the Kenyan ambassador said that he meant Obama's father was born in Kenya. However, when pressed about Obama's birth place:

"I don't know," he said with a tone of irritation. "You should ask your government. I know his father is Kenyan."

However, that's not what the original transcript suggests. clear="all" /> Finally, there is a Affidavit of Bishop Ron McRae which is part of the Berg case. The Bishop says pretty much the same thing as the Ambassador.

"Additionally, it is common knowledge throughout both the Christian and Muslim communities in Kenya, that contrary to news media propaganda here in the United States, US Senator Barack Obama is a Muslim and not a Christian, and that he was born in Mombasa, Kenya and not in the State of Hawaii as falsely purported by the Obama campaign for presidency of the United States."

While you cannot impeach the ambassador's character, you can impeach McCrae's character. After all, he's just an itinerant preacher. But McCrae has been to Kenya. Still that makes two people who say that it is common knowledge in Kenya that Obama was born in Kenya.
Then of course there is a video of Obama's grandmother saying that Obama is born in Kenya
There is a case to be made that Obama mother didn't mean Obama was born in Kenya but rather that he is a "son of this village". However, witnesses insist that she said she was present at obama's birth in Kenya. If taken alone, perhaps she could well be ignored. However, her take is in keeping with others both high and low.

Again here is a pdf transcript of Kenyan National Assembly on Nov 5, 2008, the day after Obama was elected. Over and over again there are references to Obama being a "son of the soil" of Kenya and a Kenyan. On page page 3275 there is this passage:

HOUSE SHOULD ADJOURN TO DISCUSS ELECTION OF MR. BARRACK OBAMA

Ms. Odhiambo: On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir. It is not on this issue. I stand on a point of order under Standing Order No.20 to seek leave for adjournment of the House to discuss the American presidential election results.

(Applause)

Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, the President-elect, Mr. Obama, is a son of the soil of this country. Every other country in this continent is celebrating the Obama win. It is only proper and fitting that the country which he originates from should show the same excitement, pomp and colour.



Again. It is not the one thing. Rather it is the tide.

The American Thinker explains here why the short form that Obama released is not sufficient for Hawaii. The Obama administration could put this to rest by releasing his long form birth certificate. But he doesn't. Instead of just releasing his long form birth certificate he has paid his lawyers over 1 million dollars from campaign contributions since Sept 08 to squash the suits brought on the issue. Why bother. The Arnold would have run for president long ago and likely won if he were a "natural born" american. He's not. He's naturalized. So he can't run. And he knows it. (though there were some trial balloons sent up a couple years back about changing the law--that went nowhere.)

Like the Arnold, Obama looks to be a naturalized citizen--but maybe he's not even that. Here's a footnoted timeline of obama's life 1961-2008. Its especially helpful to look at 1961 and 2008. Of interest is this: Interesting timeline with footnotes of obama's life.

of note

On April 10, 2008 Senator Claire McCaskill (D-MO) introduces Senate Resolution S. Res. 511 to “recognize that John Sidney McCain is a natural born citizen.” The resolution is allegedly meant to clarify that McCain is eligible to be President even though he was born in Panama. Because McCain’s parents were both Americans and he was born in Panama because his father was stationed there while in the military, existing law already covers McCain and he is eligible to be President. McCaskill’s resolution thus serves no purpose – except that language is included to try and provide a “blanket cover” for other foreign born candidates without military backgrounds, in order to enable Obama to be eligible to be President. This is the language that Obama inserted “Whereas previous presidential candidates were born outside of the United States of America and were understood to be eligible to be President;” This Clause has no particular relevance to McCain [The language is inserted by Obama.][301,303]

301# http://texasdarlin.wordpress.com/2008/10/11/obama-born-in-kenya-new-information/#more-3844

303 # http://watchdog.net/b/us/110/sr511

Obama's Senate efforts to airbrush his past were augmented by his top Intelligence Advisor in March 2008. Obama's Intelligence Adviser Involved in Security Breach. Obama’s top terrorism and intelligence adviser, John O. Brennan, heads a firm that was cited in March [2008] for breaching sensitive files in the State Department’s passport office, according to a State Department Inspector General’s report released this past July. The security breach, first reported by the Washington Times and later confirmed by State Department spokesman Sean McCormack, involved a contract employee of Brennan’s firm, The Analysis Corp., which has earned millions of dollars providing intelligence-related consulting services to federal agencies and private companies. During a State Department briefing on March 21, 2008, McCormack confirmed that the contractor had accessed the passport files of presidential candidates Barack Obama, Hillary Rodham Clinton, and John McCain, and that the inspector general had launched an investigation. Sources who tracked the investigation tell Newsmax that the main target of the breach was the Obama passport file, and that the contractor accessed the file in order to “cauterize” the records of potentially embarrassing information.

[ckilmer]

“The WND article says the owners of 6085 Kalanianaole Hwy were Orland S. and Thelma S. (Young) Lefforge.” Are they still living?.................How about now?
...........
See post 89

They died within weeks of one another. The last just 10 days before the newspaper birth clipping appeared online. Indications are that the residence was too expensive for grad students or bank tellers. But not university professors.

[Polarik]

Which part of this story is not old?

[ckilmer]

Which part of this story is not old?
...........
This part was news to me. And I’ve followed the story fairly closely.

So its a helpful piece to keep people up on the evidential trail.

But you’re right. Just now there is no news. That guy last week on ebay turned out to be just white noise—a bust.

[john mirse]

Myself, one reason I want to see Obama's Hawaii long form birth certificate is to help me resolve some the following questions I have about Obama's eligibility to be President and about Obama's truthfulness:

1. Did Soetoro ADOPT Obama before Obama left for Indonesia as a child? If it happened, would the Hawaii long form birth certificate tell us or not tell us?

2. Indonesian school document, the one we see on the web: It says Obama was born in Honolulu, but it also lists his father as Soetoro, and it lists his religion as Islam, I believe.

3. My point is this: If Soetoro, Indonesian citizen and Muslim, legally adopted Obama, does that mean that Obama somehow legally lost his eligiblity to be President of the United States?

4. Obama's short form Hawaii birth certificate we see on the web: If the Hawaii long form is different in any way from the short form that Obama displays on the internet, then Obama could be guilty of perjury and of misleading the American people.

5. Also, the long form birth certificate would have the doctor and birth hospital names on it.

6. This means that we would finally be able to contact the birth doctor, the doctor's friends/relatives, and birth hospital officials in order to find out once and for all whether or not Obama was born in Hawaii and Barack Obama senior was his father.

7. So, even if it is found beyond a shadow of a doubt that Obama was born in Hawaii, there are still more questions that need to be answered before we definitely say that Obama is eligible to be President of the United States.

8. And even if Obama is found to be legally eligible to be President, there is this OTHER question that also needs to be answered:

Is Obama MORALLY eligible---not just LEGALLY eligible--- to be President of the United States, if we find out that Obama lied to the American people by displaying a fake Hawaii birth certificate on his website?

[Smokin' Joe]

I guess I am surprised that negroes would have made up much of a component (speaking frankly, I am no racist). I can understand a mixture of oriental peoples, native Hawaiians, caucasians, but thought persons of African descent would be relatively rare.

In the remainder of the states, a caucasian/black African union would have been highly unusual.

[wintertime]

This will not go away. It will eventually be brought to light.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

From your lips to God’s ear, I pray!

[nufsed]

I don’t see anything that would have “recinded” his US citizenship. Also, weren’t these actions taken when he was a child. How would that disolve his US citizenship?

[nufsed]

Your entire post was non-responsive to my question about losing or giving up US citizenship. I have read all the threads I can and your post was familiar to me. You should add that Bill Richardson called him an immigrant and he is the highest ranking government official to do so.

Thanx, but I'm looking for a response to what I asked

[nufsed]

I have read both of your posts. You ended the second with a version of my question.