Posted on 05/06/2009 1:59:51 PM PDT by JoeProBono
Larry Armstrong has been volunteering with his local Boy Scout branch for years, chaperoning trips, serving on the council committee, even becoming certified in archery instruction for a day camp. But Armstrong, at 6-foot, 2-inches tall and about 370 pounds, may no longer qualify for some scout outings because he's overweight, part of a new push by the national organization to ensure the scouts and their volunteers are healthy. A new mandatory weight requirement by the national Boy Scouts of America that will take effect next January has some longtime volunteers concerned they will be left out of trips they've enjoyed with their sons for years.
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You’re right. No way should someone weigh that much given his height. Can you imagine being in a canoe with the guy?
High Adventure is a term with meaning in Scounting. It is a designation of a certain type of official camp. Other camps are known as Aquatic or Merit Badge Camps. Archery instructors can be found at some High Adventure camp, but most are at Merit Badge Camps.
On average 2 scout masters a year die at High Adventure camps, typically of heart attacks brought on by a lack of physical preperation. This rule is clearly addressing this statistic.
There are only 3 high adventure camps I can recall at this time:
Philmont: the most famous camp in the world, 50 to 250 miles of backcountry hiking.
The Windjammer Camp in Florida: Sailing a wind powered boat.
The Canoe Adventure Camp in Minnesota: 50+ miles of canoe and portaging.
Physical fitness tests are appropriate. Obesity is an appropriate heuristic in my opinion.
— lates
— jrawk
Eagle Scout
Worked 7 summers at a scout camp.
I don't know why that should be so hard to understand.
Back when I was recruited into Scouting I wanted to go far and do big things. But our Scoutmaster in Troop 110, while he seemed physically fit, was a drinker. The kind who spent most of his time while not working with a beer in his hand. He was a super nice guy but perhaps too nice and hardly inspiring, and I dropped out of Scouting after maybe a year.
Sadly, our Scoutmaster died in his early '50s, quite possibly a consequence of his personal habits.
Just another reason an outfit like BSA needs to uphold various standards in it's volunteers. I don't necessarily agree they need to be arbitrary and absolute, but if a guy lacks the necessary moral qualities or is physically incapable of carrying out the mission for whatever reason, the boys in his troop are being shortchanged.
On my honor I will do my best
To do my duty to God and my country
and to obey the Scout Law;
To help other people at all times;
To keep myself physically strong,
mentally awake, and morally straight.
CLEAN: A Scout keeps his body and mind fit and clean. He goes around with those who believe in living by these same ideals. He helps keep his home and community clean.
I AGREE with you about responsibility, etc., but it is difficult to be unemotional when it concerns your child, and I think the father became defensive because this is a painful reality for the family, especially his son. The organization might be protecting itself OR it might be unduly influenced by PC. But why throw up a negative, an obstacle right away? Speak to the parent about participating in strenuous activities as they come up. The boy might not like the scouts and quit before he has an opportunity to even go on such an event.
INSTEAD of acting as a positive influence it has become a PR issue for the scouts, an insult to the family and yet another humiliation for the young boy.
SEEMS like the parents were looking for an organization that would help build their son's self confidence, which might help him with his weight issue in the future. Self confidence is a good first step - an imperative first step - I speak from experience. The scouts missed an opportunity to help that young man improve - part of their mission statement - and the boy suffered what I imagine has turned into a traumatic humiliation, especially as it grows more newsworthy and spreads out of their community.
THE scouts protected themselves but hurt their image and ruined the boy's opportunity from poor handling. In fact, perhaps a little more emotion injected into their decision might have produced a better result for all concerned.
Being that overweight predisposes a person to diabetes, hypertension, heart attacks...etc, etc. I have seen the devastating effects of type 2 diabetes. It is important he teaches these boys that it makes sense to take care of yourself. After all, the body is the temple of the holy spirit.
I think this is fair.
Remember, not that long people were trying to cut them down for not allowing gays. I defended them on that, and so did many here. It was a private organization then, it it is now. I used to be a scout, and I will tell you straight up that he WOULD NOT make it on some of our trips. I am not saying he could not physically survive, but a man of his size is not capable of some things. He should step up, and know his limitations, and not try to bend the system his way... if he really wants to help the kids.
This is wrong, in my opinion. The Boy Scouts teach values. What sort of value are they teaching by discriminating against someone due to their weight? Every large dad out there would no longer be able to participate.
Sure, anyone who weighs that much needs to lose weight, but banning them from participating in the boy scouts (which is good exercise in and of itself), is just not right.
“Who’s gonna deal with his carcass if he keels over in the outback?”
Well trained and compassionate Boy Scouts.
Sure, anyone who weighs that much needs to lose weight, but banning them from participating in the boy scouts (which is good exercise in and of itself), is just not right.
Yes! Yes! Yes! You articulated in a few sentences what I said in a book (by comparison).
Too much common sense for many people, evidently!
They’re not telling him he can’t participate, just that he can’t go on trips that are inappropriate.
My husband has been to Philmont twice. He and one of the boys on one of the the trips both had to lose weight to qualify. A great motivator for both of them!
From reading earlier in the thread, the BSA is just extending these requirements to non-Philmont trips that are similarly strenuous.
High adventure means physical stress and intense activity. I would doubt the man is up to the task. As a 55 year old overweight individual about to empark on a 70 mile backing adventure in the wilderness of Philmont Scout Ranch, I was pullesd aside and given a total physical prior to being given the go ahead. As an experienced Backpacker in very good hiking condition I had no problem and was permitted.
Others were not. They were deemed physically incapable of the high adventure and not permitted to continue even though they had paid money and travelled all the way to New Mexico. Part of the reason is that it is difficult to assist a cardiac patient way back in the wilderness. Another part is lawsuits. If the adult leader did have a severe health problem, there would surely be a law suit. It is better to deny privilege than to spend money and time in court.
There are lots and lots of very large Scout leaders. Some know their limitations but others do not. All scout trips including most permanent camps are not High Adventure and do not have the same health requirements.
.....Any adult who eagerly wishes to participate in that stuff is a wierdo.....
said the overweight nerd city dweller
Don’t feel bad, sometimes I’ve written 100 words when 10 would have sufficed.
Commonsense. Sure do miss seeing him around these days. If you happen to see him, tell him I send my regards and do hope he returns soon. ;)
You missed the part about High Adventure. That is a very special activity that involves intense physical activity over an extended period of time.
There are lots and lots of permissible outdoor activities in which he may participate with his troop as an adult leader.
Thanks. I read that after I posted. Still doesn’t make it right though. I figure someone who’s obese probably isn’t going to want to go on an outing that he can’t handle. But if he does want to participate, I say let him.
Just because someone is obese doesn’t mean they’re ignorant. They know better than anyone else what their limitations are. Of course that’s just my opinion.
The point is he is so freaking overweight that he is a danger to himself and to others on certain outings. He is just not safe to have along for everything.
There is no hint that he is disqualified from EVERYTHING. Just certain things.
Hard to say. My guess is that on a unit-based outing no one would ask questions. What might happen on a local outing is anybody’s guess. If you show up at Philmont, OTOH, they will not just weigh and measure you but will give you a physical recheck. There they will DEFINITELY bounce you if you are over the limit.
The author was in error regarding the weight limits. Someone who is 5’ 10” is 70” tall. The weight limit for that person is 226 pounds. The 239 weight limit is for someone 72” tall, a.k.a. 6’ tall. Someone 6’ 2” tall must be 252 pounds or less. Which leaves me out.
Makes things better on the kids too. You don’t want some fat whale dragging at the back of every hike and slowing everybody down in every physical activity.
O.k.
I do wonder what prompted the Boy Scouts to decide that they needed a new rule/weight requirement. Was there an incident that put the welfare of some Boy Scouts in danger due to a volunteer that was of larger than “normal” size?
Sometimes rules are made for the sole purpose of making them or trying to prevent scenarios that haven’t happened yet. In the old days, if we had a Boy Scout volunteer who was hefty (far more polite way of saying “freaking overweight”) we would have just spelled out what the next trip was going to be, what it would require from each and every participant (physically and mentally), and let each individual scout or leader or volunteer decide if they wanted to go or not.
The phrase “nanny state, nanny state, nanny state” are ringing in my ears over this one.
To call this discrimination is really a stretch. Common sense and personal responsibility are currently outlawed and everyone need to blame some else. This guy is choosing to blame BSA for the inability to participate in “high adventure”. Both my sons are Eagle and most father’s I’ve encountered over the years accept that there are just some things they just can’t do. Example; neither my husband or I are cyclists and gratefully accepted the fact that we could not join the troop on a 50 mile cycling merit badge requirement. We provided support in other ways that day. Luckily other parents in the Troop were very happy to lead this activity. On the other hand, we were better equipped to help in other activities. None of this is discrimination, it’s just common sense. You can’t teach leadership while you’re whining.
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