Posted on 05/04/2009 3:14:15 PM PDT by A Navy Vet
President Thomas Jefferson's own words (the right-wing extremist that he was!):
"A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government."
"Every citizen should be a soldier. This was the case with the Greeks and Romans, and must be that of every free state."
"I own that I am not a friend to a very energetic government. It is always oppressive."
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms."
"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."
"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."
"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground."
"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty."
"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty."
A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.
Was that Franklin?
Jefferson?
Adams?
Lincoln?
Now 30 seconds and counting...
I'll give you a hint, it's not Washington.
Anyone got answer?
Ha!! Alexander Tytler -- supposedly. Possibly yet another made-up quote. ;-)
Here's what I know for certain: there are many, many bogus quotes floating around and often used by people to bolster their otherwise not-so-strong arguments. I think that's a fact, and not even debatable.
So the question is whether any or all the quotes you listed fall into the category of BOGUS? I suspected at least one did, and searching through various sites found that only the first two of your quotes could be positively verified.
The rest are all listed one place or another as being unverifiable, so presumed bogus.
Whether all of these sources searched every possible Jefferson document is, of course, a good question -- but they all claim they did.
You might know, I'm a bit of a "history buff," and a stickler for as much historical accuracy as possible -- knowing that even with the best of intentions, the best of historians sometimes get it wrong.
But the issue with Jefferson above all is extraordinarily important, because he was in some ways our most radical Founding Father (and that's saying a lot!), so it's especially important with Jefferson to make certain we have his ideas right, imho.
Sorry for the too-quick response. I'm out of time, got to run. Will come back to this later, maybe Sunday... ;-)
Here are some sources for both genuine Jefferson quotes and known bogus "quotes.":
Jefferson Encyclopedia: Bogus quotes
Please note my response on this subject to djf in post #33 above.
You are right, of course, those are Jefferson's words. You are also correct to add "within his own lands," just as Jefferson himself did in later drafts.
I suspect there may be more we could say, or debate, on this subject. See my post #33. If you disagree, then feel free to "fire away," so to speak. ;-)
//"I own I am not a friend to a very energetic government//. It is always oppressive. It places the governors indeed more at their ease, at the expense of the people." --Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, 1787. (Forrest version) ME 6:391"
"Sorry, pal, but these and other quotes I mentioned above by President Jefferson actually exist."
You are correct on both these quotes, my mistakes. On the first I misread it. Not sure what happened on the second, possibly couldn't find and "assumed" that meant "bogus."
Sorry about that...
Citation: Thomas Jefferson, 1 Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334"
"Status: This quotation has not been found in any of the writings of Thomas Jefferson. It is often seen preceded by the sentence, "No freeman shall be debarred the use of arms," which is from Jefferson's draft of the Virginia Constitution."
So what does this mean? My first guess would be that fake Jefferson quote manufacturing industry has started inventing citations to go along with their bogus quotes.
Check, check & recheck: I certainly do stand corrected on all but three items below. Those remain BOGUS. So here's the new list, as I see it:
"A wise and frugal government, [which shall restrain men from injuring one another,] which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government." LOOKS GOOD
"Every citizen should be a soldier. This was the case with the Greeks and Romans, and must be that of every free state." LOOKS GOOD
"I own that I am not a friend to a very energetic government. It is always oppressive." LOOKS GOOD
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms [IN HIS OWN LANDS]." LOOKS GOOD [w/"IN HIS OWN LANDS"]
"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." BOGUS
"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." BOGUS
"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground." LOOKS GOOD
"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty." LOOKS GOOD
"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty." BOGUS
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