Posted on 04/04/2009 1:47:03 AM PDT by gondramB
I'd like to ask. I promise I don't mean this in an unkind way. I would really like to know.
Suppose the Freepers who believe that humans were created in their current form by God (whether 6,000 years ago or much longer)....
Suppose you became convinced that instead man had developed from lower organisms over billions of years.
Would that have to change any other core beliefs - that God directed man, The God came to Abraham and chose his children; that God sent us His son, that we are to follow the teachings of Jesus - particularly that we are to love the lord and love each other and ask forgiveness in his Son's name when we do wrong?
Written by a modern Christian who is a scientist, rather than by Moses recording the oral history of the same event, this might read: "By guiding the process of evolution over millions of years, the LORD God formed the man from the same elements as He used for the rest of creation and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being." I don't see a conflict. The Bible tells what God did, while those wo research evolution objectively hope to figure out something of how God did it. Science can be another way of appreciating God's work.
Reminds me of the time in history future, when a scientist exclaims to God that they had found methods to create life, therefore didn't need God any further. In order to prove their abilities, they challenged God to a test to show Him they didn't need Him any longer.
God allowed their challenge and they proceeded to begin to make life. The scientist proceeded to gather some organic compounds, some tools and set them on the table, when God interrupted them, stating, "Not so fast, you have to create your own!"
any belief in evolution calls Genesis a lie
Creation is why we wear clothes
creation is why Jesus had to die for sin, if we evolved, there was no creation, there was no special person, Adam created first, nor was there Eve, so, the reason Jesus came to die for sin is a lie
Creation tells us the order of events, the creation of the Earth first, the sun days later, evolution calls that a lie
Go back to the Bible, write down the order of events in Genesis, and see for yourself that evolution doesn’t agree with any of them
10. Make Your Choice: Genesis or Evolution?
Some people believe that if you make the days of creation ages (long periods of time), then Genesis chapter 1 teaches the same as evolution. They believe that the order of events in Genesis 1 is the same order of events as given by the evolutionists. Let us see if this is really true:
Evolutionists say that the SUN came before the EARTH.
But God says the sun was made on DAY ______ and the earth was made on DAY _____. Therefore the earth is _______ days older than the sun! Was there LIGHT even before the sun was made? _______ On what day was this LIGHT created? DAY _____
Evolutionists say that life must first begin in the sea (in the ocean). They teach that after millions of years some life forms eventually moved onto the land.
But God says life in the ocean appeared on DAY _______ and life on land first appeared on DAY ______ (plant life). Thus, life on land appeared _____ DAYS before life appeared in the oceans (marine life).
Evolutionists say that reptiles came before birds (because they believe that birds evolved from reptiles).
But God says that birds were made on DAY ______ and land animals (which would included land reptiles) were not made until DAY ______. Birds are _____ DAY older than reptiles! Could birds have evolved from reptiles? ______ Certainly reptiles did not evolve from birds! (Not even the evolutionists would say this!). The Bible says God made the birds and God made the reptiles. Reptiles did not precede birds by hundreds of thousands of years.
“Every thinking person knows that birds were created before reptiles, because that is what God has told us in His Word.”
Evolutionists say that land mammals came before whales (because they believe that whales evolved from land mammals).
But God says that whales and other great monsters of the sea were created on DAY _____ and land mammals were not made until DAY _____. Which came first, the whale or the pig? _________________ Do you think the whale has evolved from pig-like animals? ________ Therefore whales are ______ DAY older than land mammals! For a land mammal to become a whale he would need to return to the water, lose his hair and grow about 50 times as big! Do you think this really happened? ______ A large elephant (the largest land mammal) weighs about 7 tons! A blue whale (the largest kind of whale) weighs about 150 tons! The whale did not evolve by chance; it was created by God!
Evolutionists say that plant life is impossible without insects because the pollination process (the way plants reproduce) requires insects such as bees.
But God says that insects (creeping things) were not created until DAY _____ and plant life appeared on DAY ______. This means that plant life appeared _______ DAYS before insects. Do you think plants and flowers could survive for 3 ages without insects? ______ Do you think plants and flowers could survive for 3 days without insects? _____
“I was on time! The all-wise Creator created me at just the right time–on the sixth day of the creation week! That’s when I started making honey!!”
Evolutionists say that ape-like creatures came along thousands of years before man (because they believe that man evolved from ape-like creatures).
But God says that men and apes were both created on DAY _______.
Evolutionists say that the sun must have been here before life could begin (because they believe life began as the sun’s rays beat down upon the primitive oceans).
But God says that life (vegetation) appeared on DAY _____ and the sun was not made until DAY ______. It is possible for life to begin without the sun but can life begin without the CREATOR? ______ Who is the source of life, the sun or the CREATOR (see Acts 17:28)? _______ Life owes its existence not to the SUN but to the SON OF GOD (see John 1:3 and Colossians 1:16).
Please indicate on which DAY of creation the following were made:
_______ Whales
_______ God rested on this day
_______ Fish
_______ The earth
_______ The stars
_______ Insects (bees)
_______ Land Reptiles
_______ Trees
_______ Flowers
_______ Monkeys
_______ The Sun
_______ Birds
_______ Elephants
_______ Man
_______ Sharks
_______ Light
_______ Dry Land
_______ Turtles
_______ Firmament
(an expanse of space)
_______ Eagles
You cannot listen to both God and the evolutionists! They do not teach the same thing! If Genesis chapter 1 is true (and it is!), then evolution is false. If evolution is true, then Genesis chapter 1 is false, and the Bible is filled with errors. But the Lord Jesus said that the Word of God is ___________ (John 17:17) and we know that God’s Word is __________ from the ___________________ (Psalm 119:160). Who should you believe — the CREATOR or the evolutionists? Will you put your faith in the false god of the evolutionists who needs billions of years to do his work, or will you put your faith in an Almighty Creator who can create all things in 6 DAYS?
As you observe and study the world around you, you will discover that all the true facts of science and all the true laws of science agree perfectly with the Bible and with the book of Genesis! Do you think it is possible for BOOK 1 (God’s revelation in nature) to contradict BOOK 2 (God’s revelation in His Word)? _______ (see pages 14-21). Who wrote Book 1? __________ Who wrote Book 2? _____________ God is the Author of both! This is why both books say the same thing. And both books point to the greatness of the C________________, who is blessed forever, Amen (see Romans 1:25). Sad to say, the books that the evolutionists write often do not agree with the true facts of science and they certainly do not agree with God’s Word the Bible! CHOOSE you this day! (See Joshua 24:15.) Choose the true God of creation or the false God of the evolutionists (the God of chance)!
there is nothing in the Bible to sugest a recreation
Man, I could preach that and win the world to Christ.
Absolutely. take the average fertility age of people, perhaps 16, multiply that by the number of incremental changes they require, then add in the factor that no change has ever been witnessed in hundreds of years of meticulous records, the resultant time span is longer than what they say is the age of the universe.
When were our souls created? There is nothing in Genesis that tells us the when. But we do know they existed as it is the 'soul' which means breath of life, that God breathed into the Adam's nostrils that made him living.
Paul says some were predestined before the foundation of this earth age. Ephesians 1:4, one of many places Paul tells us there was an age before this flesh age. An age where the dinos ran free and flesh man were NOT hunted down and consumed by dinos.
> You are the one stating that this proves evolution.
Actually, you’re the one who has said it is a better proof for Creation. I’m calling your bluff.
> I have no idea.
I do. These animals evolved here, and adapted to precisely suit the unique flora and fauna that also evolved here contemporaneously. And because until the arrival of Man on our islands, they had no natural predators so they lived here undisturbed at the top of their food chains. That is how the Tuatara was able to remain as the fragile last of a line of animals that nearly died out with the Dinosaurs.
What these animals DIDN’T do is travel here on Noah’s Ark — which is precisely what they would have had to do if we are expected to take the Genesis record literally. They did not swim here, and they could not fly here, they did not build rafts and float here on wood, and they could not hold their breath until the Great Flood waters receded (to where? — for there isn’t enough water on the planet to submerge it uniformly to a depth of 29,000 feet: do the sums and convince yourself!)
Having proven that the Genesis record cannot be taken completely literally, we are left with the task of re-assembling what really, actually did happen, and the likely timeframe for that to have occurred. That is a task best left to Evolutionists — reserving only the proviso that it all happened under God’s control, for His purposes, and at His direction. For that, too, is provable.
Chapter and verse for a re-creation, please?
If God's statement that man is created in His image and that God Himself breathed life into man is a lie, if the reality is that we evolved from pond scum, then every other thing that God has told us in His Word has to be questioned.
Fortunately, so much Scripture has been shown and proven to be absolutely inerrant and correct, I don't have the dilemma you posted.
I have every reason to believe God and doubt man and man's ever-changing theories and beliefs.
Basically, it boils down to a lack of faith in God. Faithless men came up with the fiction of evolution because they believe that God could not make the world and its universe in six days. They believe that if one took watch parts and shook them in a burlap bag, after the required “billions and billions of years” (think Carl Sagan here), one would have a working watch. Actual observation of the effects of time on any process is that its results are wear and deterioration, and one would have a sack full of worn and broken parts. Faith in evolution counters real science.
Jesus said in Matthew 19:26, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.” Christians believe Jesus. If you need to have Darwin’s crutch, your god is limited to your brain’s ability to reason, pretty pitiful with its penchant for sinning. Evolutionists do not believe in the true God of Scripture Whose omnipotent creating words, “Let there be...” resulted in the entire universe. “Big Bang”, indeed.
One lie and the whole Bible is a box of chocolates.
> Suppose you became convinced that instead man had developed from lower organisms over billions of years.
As a science student how did ever you become convinced of that?
To provide just one example - human genetic code consists of 3 billion individual nucleotides each with one of 4 possible variations. The probability that this got assembled by chance even over the course of billions of years is vanishingly small. And this is before we even begin to account for the epigenetic control or the astonishing complexity of a single cell.
There is nothing in the Bible to suggest a gap in Genesis 1, it is something people put there to try and explain evolution and creation and dinosaurs because they chose to believe men instead of God
Ephesians 1:4 According as HE hath chosen us in Him *BEFORE* the foundation of the world (*AGE*) that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love.
Now this *foundation of the world* is a verb meaning *casting down - overthrow* which is indeed that 'gap' as some like to call it found in Genesis 1:2.
When was Lucifer created and when did Lucifer rebel and when did Lucifer get *cast down*? Genesis give the outline and the other Heavenly PREDESTINED prophets fill in the events but do not give us exact dates.
Now there is a reason why Paul over and over tells about those predestined and even tells us that by doing so Ephesians 1:9 Having made known unto us THE mystery of HIS will.
My question for you is this since you claim to be a christian who believes in evolution. If you believe in evolution then that means you do not believe in the Genesis account of what we generally call creation. Which means you do not believe the beginning of the Bible. So the question is this: at what point do you begin the believe the Bible. Is the beginning of the New Testament any more believable. A virgin birth? Are you kidding me? Just a question. As one Bible teacher I was listening to pointed out when we read the beginning of the Bible we all need to make one very important decision. Do we believe what we are reading or do we not believe what we are reading and the rest will flow from that. OK...It's now time for me to go to the gym. Thanks for the post
>>>Here on FR, you will find rabid evolutionists pushing their Nietzsche/ Darwin beliefs like a drug.
You mean its “rabid evolutionists” endlessly spamming the NEWS forum with reposts from scientifically illiterate blogs, while discussion of genuine science topics gets pushed into CHAT? It’s “rabid evolutionists” day in and day out filing repetitive and pointless “we hate Darwin” tirades ? Over and over and over and over.
Are we reading the same forum ?
For myself I wish the whole topic, pro and con, would disappear back to the religious websites who exist for this stuff.
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