Posted on 02/18/2009 1:33:35 PM PST by FortWorthPatriot
There have been several posts on different threads where this topic has been discussed. Some FReepers say our U.S. military would not use armed force against citizens if order to do so; others say they would, going as far as saying that "the military will fight for whoever pays them to."
I thought why not just ask our FReepers who are currently on active duty what they think.
So, active duty military FReepers, here are the questions:
1. Would you obey an order from the current president to disarm U.S. citizens and force them into internment camps?
2. Do you believe that those in your chain of command would carry out such an order?
3. What do you believe is the percentage of personnel in your command that would refuse the order?
4. What do you believe is the percentage of personnel in the entire U.S. miltary that would refuse the order?
That makes more sense ... ;-)
R A C E W A R
I don't think I'd term it a "takeover", but if the President would refuse to leave office at noon on January 20th after having served the term he was elected for, and either was defeated or not eligible to run again, that would be cause for his involuntary removal.
But it would be to install the winner of the preceeding election, or if no election had been held (That's up to Congress if they want the date changed).
Another situation would be iron clad proof of ineligibility to hold the office, and refusal to "de-occupy" it.
No they lied to the state of Texas, that is the Governor, and got the equipment from the Texas National Guard.
Unless they resurrect last Congress' (110th) HR 1022, and just improve it a little and ban them from future sale. (HR 1022) would have banned most all of them. HR
No not by Congress in the case of a Constitutional Convention. Plus the "approval by the states would be done the original way, by Con-con's in the states, not by the state legislatures.
Remember the original Con-Con was called to "amend" the Articles of Confederation, instead they wrote a new Constitution and re-wrote the "unamious" requirement from the AoC for amendments into 9 of 13 states approval for the new Constitution.
You got it.
Put a frog in boiling water, he’ll jump out. Put a frog in cool water and turn on the heat, he’ll sit there and be boiled alive.
That’s precisely how we got into the position we’re in now: everyone wetting themselves over whether their state is a “shall issue” state or a “may issue” state, and feeling happily chuffed when everyone in the state who wants one can get a carry permit - with fingerprints, fees, mandated training, registered address, and all the rest of the State apparatus.
No one seems to question why we need permits to exercise rights bestowed on Man by God.
As if by reflex, everyone now dutifully hies himself or herself off to the authorities to get his/her ticket. It’s a process of slow, but inexorable, desensitization to Second Amendment encroachments by the State.
They’ll never come for the guns. It won’t happen. They’ll tax them. They’ll tax ammunition. If you don’t pay the tax, they’ll put a lien on your house or attach your paycheck. Next, they’ll demand each and every weapon be registered. The registration fees will be “reasonable” at first; but eventually they’ll increase to the point where nobody can pay them.
Numbered records; everything computerized.
Slowly but inexorably, people will simply give up.
Sure, there will be holdouts - but with all the hassles and all the social and financial sanctions, they’ll diminish in numbers by the sheer attrition of ageing and impatience.
Wait and see. Ten years; twenty years. In fifty years, the United Nations will be running the United States, and the constitution - already fallen severely into disuse - will be nothing more than a quaint historical curiosity.
Look around; here, there... Europe, the United States... people don’t WANT to take repsonsibility for their own lives. They WANT Big Brother to run their lives FOR them. Orwell’s vision isn’t something that will overpower the citizenry; it won’t arrive by virtue of conquest or even a growing tyranny; the people will ask for it - heck, they’ll DEMAND it - and they’ll applaud it when it arrives.
Look around, it’s already here. Compare the freedoms Americans enjoyed just fifty or sixty years ago with the present situation. Adolf Hitler on his wildest, most imaginative day, never even DREAMED of submitting the German state and the German people to the sorts of controls which all Americans now take utterly - and blithely - for granted.
Too cynical? Sorry to ruffle any feathers. Just the humble opinion of a newswatcher, after all.
Plenty of older folks will decide it’s just not in them to go guerrilla. They’ll draw the line right at their front door, and more power to them if they take out plenty of the bastards.
Others might go another way.
This is why I fear a runaway “kangaroo convention” so much. If the military and police are given a “new constitution” to swear to defend, they are off the hook and can proceed with gun confiscations etc.
IMHO, this would split the military and lead directly to some type of dirty civil war.
Of course, if BO’s entire covert goal was to destroy the evil imperialist capitalist USA, this would be an ideal means to do so.
In that case they don’t need to divide and conquer, but only to divide and let the USA self destruct.
I don’t know how big the hellfire/viper inventory is, but production can be ramped way way up. Plus, even smaller more “cost effective” UAVs and missiles are easy to build today. You could drop missiles the size of brooms on individuals from UAVs even smaller and cheaper than Predators.
I take regular old greenbacks as well. A lot of folks also send money orders.
Imagine if all of the Predator drones armed with Hellfire and Viper missiles are cruising the countryside searching out “curfew violators,” “zone jumpers,” and of course, “armed insurgents.”
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and what makes you so sure our military wouldn’t be in command of these and going after the traitors?
Thanks. Those of us that actually served, actually ‘walked the walk’ know this.
Only those that didn’t think otherwise.
You need to stop watching Hollywoods version of our military, my friend.
Your post indicates inadvertently that you believe the MSM’s view that anyone in the military is a idiot dead ender that joined out of desperation, or because they can’t ‘function’ in society.
Nothing could be further from the truth.
Many troop will go along with whatever is happening and a first operation may be botched and fall apart. Such things happen in any new revolutionary force. Then the unreliables are weeded out as they show themselves to be, in fact, unreliable, and subsequent operations become more focused and efficient.
“Are you military veteran?”
Of course, that is how I know.
“This is NOT the case with the US military.”
True, but Obama is pushing to have as many foreigners on his side as possible.
As a recently retired army officer, I have seen very little to indicate that the rank and file of both officer and enlisted understand the burdens of constitutional loyalty.
Our oath requires us to swear to defend the US Constitution from all enemies, foreign and domestic and to obey the lawful orders of those appointed over us.
As in all legal issues, one must first be given an order of unlawful direction, placing the burden of understanding and of all consequence of that fact on the subordinate.
“conduct a cordon and search of block X, and collect all the firearms in possession of civilians per US law XYZ passed by the congress and signed into law by the POTUS” is a lawful order (it maybe in fact unconstitutional, but a trooper ain't a lawyer, recall); and all military officers and troops are bound to obey.
High ranking officers would have to refuse, be relieved until a turd simply agrees to execute the order. Does anyone really think these GOs (political appointees) are that concerned about civil rights or their careers? Recall the German military-does anyone think they were all reprobate, lilly livered stooges or officers serving to the best of thier ability? I know, we tend to think Americans are above all of that, but look at our elected officials, 99% unreliable and bent on self-aggrandizement, not the business of serving the “posse comitatus” (the power of the land,in our case, the people).
Remebr, “a standing Army is the bane of liberty”; we have a standing Army, no? The ARNG is part of it, no Governor can refuse to deliver his “organized” state militia to the US Army. We have no “well regulated militia (which is “necessary for the security of a free state”. A lone man with a gun is a terrorist (no matter what his intension's are, while a disciplined, organized militia unit (of free men in voluntary association) is a tactical, persuasive tool of a free state.
Be careful about trusting the Army to do what is right-they will likely do what is deemed legal.
Hopefully I am 100% wrong.
God Bless the US
rap artists? please send rap artists. i’ll feel safe as long as they aiming for me :)
scopes are nice for range, but if SHTF i’m more likely to grab one with iron sights first. you get quicker follow-up shots and quicker target aquisition not using a scope.
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