Posted on 01/27/2009 10:41:55 AM PST by smokingfrog
Sir David Attenborough has revealed that he receives hate mail from viewers for failing to credit God in his documentaries. In an interview with this week's Radio Times about his latest documentary, on Charles Darwin and natural selection, the broadcaster said: "They tell me to burn in hell and good riddance."
Telling the magazine that he was asked why he did not give "credit" to God, Attenborough added: "They always mean beautiful things like hummingbirds. I always reply by saying that I think of a little child in east Africa with a worm burrowing through his eyeball. The worm cannot live in any other way, except by burrowing through eyeballs. I find that hard to reconcile with the notion of a divine and benevolent creator."
Attenborough went further in his opposition to creationism, saying it was "terrible" when it was taught alongside evolution as an alternative perspective. "It's like saying that two and two equals four, but if you wish to believe it, it could also be five ... Evolution is not a theory; it is a fact, every bit as much as the historical fact that William the Conqueror landed in 1066."
(Excerpt) Read more at guardian.co.uk ...
Yes, I think God is about 6’ 4” and really tan.
Please read the entire argument. The matter in front of us is “...could evolution be a product of God.” The answer is no, because by definition (theirs not ours) evolution understands no direction in any part of the natural selection process. It is therefore, by extension, random events unguided and directionless. These assumptions are not compatible with biblical Christianity.
I am not addressing the intention of science nor do I dispute the contention that all things are a creation of God. That is my position. When a branch of that discipline (evolutionary biology) requires the omission of the possibility of a “guide” to all events irrespective of their appearance as random, we have hit an impasse.
I am a Biological scientist, and no biologists is insisting in their professional work that “God is not part of this process”, the definition you try to saddle upon Biologists is your own invention. Detection of a ‘guide’ or a ‘direction’ to evolution is not a question applicable to the scientific method.
Could evolution be the product of God? Of course it is. Every facet of creation is the product of God, and God called for the oceans and the land to bring forth life, and that life is incapable of staying exactly the same, and must, by necessity, evolve.
These evo-atheists come to a conservative site like FR and try to spread their Satanic hate-filled garbage. They aren’t fooling anybody, least of all God, who will have the last Word. God’s retribution against sinners is one of the things that keep me from losing it.
Six foot four?
I have it on good authority that Moses himself is Six foot Ten. ;)
Greatest Story Ever Told: Grateful Dead
Moses come ridin’ up on a quasar
His spurs were jingling, the door was ajar
His buckle was silver, his manner was bold
And I asked him to come in out of the cold.
His brain was boiling, his reason was spent
Nothing is borrowed, nothing is lent
I asked him for mercy, He gave he gave me a gun.
Now and again these things just got to be done.
Abraham and Isaac sitting on a fence
You’d get right to work if you had any sense
You know the one thing we need is a left-hand monkey wrench.
[ Find more Lyrics at www.mp3lyrics.org/Zyp ]
Gideon come up with his eyes on the floor
Said “You ain’t got a hinge, you can’t close the door.”
Moses stood up a full six foot ten
Said “You can’t close the door when the wall’s caved in.”
Ask him for water, he poured me some wine
We finished the bottle and broke into mine.
You get what you come for, ya ready to go
Well, it’s one in ten thousand that come for the show.
Abraham and Isaac diggin’ on a well
Mama came quick with the water witch spell
Well cool clear water well you can’t ever tell.
Abraham and Isaac sitting on a fence
You’d get right to work if you had any sense
You know the one thing we need is a left-hand monkey wrench
I think I saw Bear Grylls eat one of those once...
BTW, Man vs. Wild is the best stuff to watch on a treadmill.
If Americans came from other countries, why are there still other countries?
where I come from, that’s called TROLLING.
Thanks, Chuck. We need old-timers like you to keep the newbies in line.
No, it is not. What you are defining as “evolution” is not the evolution being presented. You have a bias. You believe in a God who is guiding the process, albeit invisibly, undetectibly (is that a word?).
Evolution, as it is presented today, requires agreement to “common descent” (go to Talk.Origins). The origin of the single original life form is addressed only insofar as they are certain that some form of abiogenesis occurred, but they shy away from how. From that point on, all change is random (defined as “no intervention necessary”) and controlled by natural selection. So, I am not “saddling” a definition that the industry does not itself hold.
And, just because you can work side by side with a person who denies the Creator, does not mean that the two viewpoints are compatible. May I state again, “science” which excludes the management of the universe by the Mind that made it and controls it is not compatable with the biblical perspective. My response was to the issue as to whether God used evolution to create the life forms we now see. While He may have used adaptation and selection, He did not use an unguided, undirected process. The evolutionary biologist folks want us to admit that intervention is unecessary.
And, yes, you are right, Biological science is productive. Not all biology is based upon “evolution”. But, that which is based upon evolution as described in Talk.Origins may be productive. Then, so is the Playboy mansion, so is China, so is Christopher Hitchens. Are they compatable with biblical Christianity? If you mean, can they coexist? Then, sure. If you mean are they based upon the same assumptions, have the same underpinnings, express the same intentions? Then, no, they are not.
Your remarks with respect to whether that “life is incapable of staying exactly the same...” is your speculation. Even the scientific method would not support your conclusion that nothing could arise in the future that could begin to make a life form stay static. All you can do is say, thus far we observe that this is the case.
This (willful?) misunderstanding sums up nearly every rejection of Christianity I have personally encountered. It's this kind of superficial theology that keeps atheists in business. It would be interesting to ask people hostile towards Christianity some basics, like "According to the Bible (John 12:31), who rules the world?" and "What does the Bible say about the effects of sin on the natural world (Romans 8:20-21)?"
The most frustrating thing is that people I have encountered believe so wholeheartedly that according to Christianity, God is directly in control of the world and directly responsible for every ill in existence that these people will not listen to anyone who claims otherwise. They just know these false facts and will not waver, even when proof is brought before their eyes.
Life, as it exists, is absolutely and completely incapable of staying exactly the same. DNA is a molecule subject to change through mutation, DNA replication itself is a process that introduces mutation.
As such evolution is the inescapable result of life being imperfect replicators.
I don’t get my view of Science from Talk.Origins or any other creationist source; I am a scientists and I get my views on Science from other scientists. Nobody in their scientific work claims that evolution or any OTHER random process excludes God. God apparently is quite fond of using processes that are random in biology and physics and elsewhere, and science is incapable of discerning “truly random” from “random but under the control of God”.
Once again in case you feel compelled to go off on the word “random”, randomness is in no way out of the control of God; EVERY result of any random process is (if you believe the Bible)directed by God.
“The dice are cast into the lap, but every result is from the Lord” Prov 16:33
Well Moses was an unreliable narrator
The better part of Klinton ran down his father’s leg.
Chuck is a n00b himself
I don’t see the Bible as a “rule book.” I see it as the very word of God.
True enough, the last half chapter of Deuteronomy was indeed written by Joshua. I didn’t expect we were splitting hairs.
The first five books are called the books of Moses, he wrote them, except the last bit, and again, biblical scholars all agree on this, even the non-believing ones. It is not a controversy nor a conundrum.
OK, the 4th commandment according to DieHard:
“Remember the Sabbath epoch, to keep it holy. Six epochs you shall labor and do all your work; but the seventh epoch is a sabbath to the LORD your God. For in six epochs the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them; and He rested the seventh epoch. Therefore the LORD blessed the seventh epoch and hallowed it.”
When God says epoch, He means epoch. When he says day, He means day. He is not playing word games with us.
Absolutely, He is not bound by time the way we are. That doesn’t mean He can’t communicate the concept of a day to us.
Sorry, Talk.Origins is an evolutionary biologist’s site. It purports to speak for the evolutionary biology community. Perhaps they over state their case. Certainly, from my point of view it is full of incorrect assumptions and conclusions.
But, from a biblical perspective, God does not do “random” anything. As noted, even the outcome of the dice roll is determined. Why? Because a universe does not possess the capacity of being self-sustaining. That is, at all moments, if God did not have His mind upon this universe, it would slip into non-existence. Thus, there is the “input” of guidance and development continuously. That is how He can confidently state that all things that occur in history are simply a reflection of plans He laid long. He is now executing them. This is not a compatible perspective with the claims of the evolutionary biologists as they represent themselves. They believe the universe is a “thing” which needs no outside sustaining, control, management. Again, this is contradictory to biblical Christianity.
You might be interested in Gerald Schroeder's interpretation of the six days of creation. Most interestingly, his answer to whether creation is six 24-hour days or 15 billion years is "yes".
And I'll bet you have a pantry full of barbecue sauce in anticipation of that happy day when you're standing right next to your God, gleefully torturing those sinners for all eternity. And I'll further bet that your definition of "sinner" is loose enough to more or less include the entire human race except for yourself and a handful of other people you know.
Dreaming about that is probably the only pleasure you get out of life. It seems to be a fairly common affliction among the self-proclaimed Christians who post regularly on this site, so at least you have lots of company.
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