Science could soar with world's most powerful rocket

New Scientist ^ | Tuesday, November 25, 2008 | David Shiga

[SunkenCiv]

A high-level panel of experts has praised the idea of sending NASA astronauts to visit a nearby asteroid and recommends ambitious robotic missions that will be made possible by next-generation rockets. But the panel also warns that these missions could carry big price tags...

When the Ares V rocket makes its first planned flight in 2020, it will be able to lift larger and heavier payloads than any existing vehicle. It will be able to launch objects stretching more than 8 metres across and haul dozens of tonnes of cargo into space on a single flight. For example, it can deliver 55 tonnes to a point 1.5 million kilometres from Earth, called L2, where some mission concepts envision placing robotic probes...

The panel judged the science return from such a mission to be less interesting than from other proposals it considered, so did not put it in the highest-priority category for further study on that basis. But it urged NASA's Exploration division, which is responsible for human space missions, to give the idea further thought...

The praise for the human asteroid mission comes hot on the heels of a policy paper by the Planetary Society of Pasadena, California, US, which urged NASA to defer Moon landings in favour of other possibilities, including a human mission to an asteroid. Thornton was also a co-author of that report.

The NRC panel recommended five missions be given the highest priority for further study. These include:

• 8-Meter Monolith Space Telescope
• Interstellar Probe
• Neptune Orbiter with Probes
• Solar Polar Imager
• Solar Probe 2

[SunkenCiv]

Ping!

[SunkenCiv]

Science in Obama’s Administration
LifeEthics | November 15, 2008 | Beverly B. Nuckols, MD, MA (Bioethics)
Posted on 11/14/2008 11:02:41 PM PST by hocndoc
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2132545/posts

Conservatives and Science
NRO: David Frum’s Diary | 11/20/08 | James Charles Wilson
Posted on 11/20/2008 3:03:02 PM PST by Sherman Logan
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2135576/posts

[Names Ash Housewares]

Ares 5 will be a monster for sure.

[SunkenCiv]

Overview: Ares V Cargo Launch Vehicle

Artist concept of Ares V. Image Credit: NASA Planning and early design are under way for hardware, propulsion systems and associated technologies for NASA's Ares V cargo launch vehicle -- the "heavy lifter" of America's next-generation space fleet. Ares V will serve as NASA's primary vessel for safe, reliable delivery of large-scale hardware to space -- from the lunar landing craft and materials for establishing a moon base, to food, fresh water and other staples needed to extend a human presence beyond Earth orbit.

Under the goals of NASA's exploration mission, Ares V is a vital part of the cost-effective space transportation infrastructure being developed by NASA's Constellation Program to carry human explorers back to the moon, and then onward to Mars and other destinations in the solar system.

The Ares V effort includes multiple hardware and propulsion element teams at NASA centers and contractor organizations around the nation, and is led by the Ares Projects Office at NASA's Marshall Space Flight Center in Huntsville, Ala. These teams rely on nearly a half century of NASA spaceflight experience and aerospace technology advances. Together, they are developing new vehicle hardware and flight systems and maturing technologies evolved from powerful, proven Saturn rocket and space shuttle propulsion elements and knowledge.

The versatile, heavy-lifting Ares V is a two-stage, vertically stacked launch vehicle. It can carry nearly 414,000 pounds (188 metric tons) to low-Earth orbit. When working together with the Ares I crew launch vehicle to launch payloads into Earth orbit, Ares V can send nearly 157,000 pounds (71 metric tons) to the moon.

For its initial insertion into Earth orbit, the Ares V first stage relies on two five-and-a-half-segment reusable solid rocket boosters. These are derived from the space shuttle solid rocket boosters and are similar to the single booster that serves as the first stage for the cargo vehicle's sister craft, the Ares I crew launch vehicle. This hardware commonality makes operations more cost effective by using the same manufacturing facilities for both the crew and cargo vehicles.



An RS68 engine undergoes hot-fire testing. Image Credit: Pratt and Whitney Rocketdyne The twin reusable solid rocket boosters of the cargo lifter's first stage flank a single, liquid-fueled central booster element, known as the core stage. Derived from the Saturn V, the core stage tank delivers liquid oxygen and liquid hydrogen propellants to a cluster of six RS-68B rocket engines. The engines are upgraded versions of those currently used in the Delta IV, developed in the 1990s by the U.S. Air Force for its Evolved Expendable Launch Vehicle program and commercial launch applications. Together, these propulsion elements comprise the Ares V's first stage.

Atop the central booster element is an interstage cylinder, which includes booster separation motors. It connects the core stage to the Ares V Earth departure stage, which is propelled by a J-2X main engine. The J-2X, also powered by liquid oxygen and liquid hydrogen, is an evolved variation of two historic predecessors: the powerful J-2 upper-stage engine that propelled the Apollo-era Saturn IB and Saturn V rockets to the moon and the J-2S, a simplified version of the J-2 developed and tested in the early 1970s.



Concept image of the Ares V earth departure stage in orbit, shown with the Crew Exploration Vehicle docked with the Lunar Surface Access Module. Image Credit: NASA Anchored atop the Earth departure stage is a composite shroud protecting the Altair lunar lander, which includes the descent stage that will carry explorers to the moon's surface and the ascent stage that will return them to lunar orbit to rendezvous with the Orion crew exploration vehicle for their return home.

During launch of an Ares V, the reusable solid rocket boosters and core propulsion stage power the vehicle into low-Earth orbit. After separation from the spent core stage, the Earth departure stage's J-2X engine takes over, placing the vehicle in a circular orbit, and the departure stage shroud separates to prepare the lander for rendezvous with the Orion capsule.

Orion carrying four astronauts is delivered to space separately by the Ares I rocket. Orion then docks with the orbiting departure stage and its lunar lander payload. Once mated, the Earth departure stage fires its J-2X engine a second time to achieve "escape velocity," the speed necessary to break free of Earth's gravity, and the lunar vessel begins its journey to the moon.

The Earth departure stage is jettisoned after it puts the mated Orion capsule and Altair lander on course for the moon. Once the astronauts arrive in lunar orbit, they transfer to the lunar module and descend to the moon's surface. Orion remains in orbit until the astronauts depart from the moon in the lunar vessel, rendezvous with the spacecraft in orbit and return to Earth.

The Ares V also represents an unmatched national asset for lifting heavy exploration, scientific, and commercial payloads to Earth orbit or trans-lunar injection, a trajectory designed to intersect with the moon. Such lift capabilities will enable NASA to, in time, undertake crewed missions to destinations beyond the moon.

The first test flight of the Ares V is planned for around 2018. The first crewed lunar excursion is scheduled for launch in the 2020 timeframe.

More Information:
> Naming NASA's New Rockets
> Ares V Cargo Vehicle (PDF, 381 KB)
> J-2X Engine (PDF, 2.7 MB)
> View Expanded Views of Ares-I and Ares-V (1.3 Mb PDF)

View Video of Ares: Launching the Future > Windows Low | > High | > RealPlayer Low | > High

[SunkenCiv]

I like the idea of evolved design (uh-oh, I see a stampede over that remark) especially in spacecraft — I think the use of SRBs means we’re getting the shuttle derived vehicles often proposed and never before developed. :’)

[yefragetuwrabrumuy]

The Ares V is supposed to be able to carry a 71 ton object to the Moon.

For this reason, its first cargo there should include a small nuclear reactor, and a tunneling robot. Living in tunnels avoids both cosmic and enhanced radiation, vacuum, cold and heat extremes, and the very abrasive Lunar dust.

Horizontal tunnels in rock make extended Lunar missions much easier and more complex. A tunneling robot could enlarge the tunnel in a slow and methodical manner, periodically inserting advanced ceramic reinforcing rod (strong, lighter, and more durable than steel), and spray the inside of the tunnel with sealant against microfissures.

Because it is on a one-way trip to the Moon, its lander could be cannibalized for pressure doors, flooring and other structural supports.

Once a suitable habitation tunnel had been built, the tunneling robot could dig an inside cistern to be used for water, then it could tunnel in search for water ice. Once all the tunneling has been done, the nuclear reactor could be used as a power source for the tunnel complex.

Not having to bring habitats with them every time, much more supplies, equipment, and food can be brought on subsequent missions.

[LiberConservative]

... When the Ares V rocket makes its first planned flight in 2020 ...

2020?! That's 12 years from now!!

(sigh)

Bring back the Apollo program as the Apollo II program.

Some of us want off this godforsaken rock ... NOW.

[Technogeeb]

2020?! That's 12 years from now!!

It will surely be canceled long before then, unfortunately. NASA and other science programs are a small part of the federal budget, but they have a large "single item" price associated with them that make them the first to go when Democrat administrations get in power who would prefer to transfer the money to social programs. Just take a look at how things disintegrated under Carter or how we abandoned high energy physics under Clinton (canceling the supercollider).

[SunkenCiv]

I was impressed that the Ares can put 206 tons into LEO, which exceeds the Saturn V (I believe... actually I didn’t check that), and beats the Apollo booster’s “to da moon” payload. Using the human-rated iteration probably requires multiple launches, along the lines you suggest — sending the surface habitat (more like a habitrail) on ahead, then putting the crew there.

Using a trajectory to the moon similar to the one used by the Clementine probe, I wonder how much more the Ares V could deliver?

[TonyStark]

I *love* the idea of this, but it won’t happen. It results in no free cheese for Obama’s core constituency (the 40% who pay no income tax), and it won’t be funded by the people that actually produce, because their capital is now in the process of fleeing immediately overseas to a less-Communist, more business-friendly environment, like China.

[SunkenCiv]

I watched (again) a DVD of Ron Howard's documentary (mostly interviews with surviving Apollo astronauts) of how we went to the moon; there's a cool story from Charlie Duke, uh, I don't want to post a spoiler. It begins with him and John Young running along on the lunar rover. S'cool. Earlier on, he tells how his own father had been born just after the Wright Brother's first flight, and had a hard time believing his son had gone to the moon. But one of Duke's own sons was five at the time, and didn't think it was any big deal. :')

[theymakemesick]

then it could tunnel in search for water ice.

No expert here but without an atmosphere and in the vacuum of space, I would expect H2O ice to have sublimated long ago if there ever was any.

[Steely Tom]

Saturn V was capable of putting 285,000 lb into Low Earth Orbit (LEO). This is about 130,000 kg.

It was capable of putting 107,000 lb into Lunar orbit (about 48,700 kg).

IIRC, the landing (dry) weight of the Shuttle orbiter is 109,000 lb.

Source: www.imperialsolutions.com

[SunkenCiv]

You could be right. The F1 engine that made the Saturn V possible started as a million plus pound engine project for the military; it made the trip to NASA when it deemed unnecessary (militarily) and was in development before JFK was nominated (the wikipedia sez the first full test was in March 1959). Also this (speaking of Demwits controlling both houses of Congress):

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-1_(rocket_engine) — There was an uprating redevelopment of the F-1 undertaken by Rocketdyne during the 1960s which resulted in a new engine specification known as the F-1A. While outwardly very similar to the F-1, the F-1A was actually lighter yet significantly more powerful (9.1 MN compared to F-1’s 6.7 MN) and would have been used on future Saturn V vehicles in the post-Apollo era. However, the Saturn V production line was closed prior to the end of Project Apollo and no F-1A engine ever flew on a launch vehicle.

> http://www.hep.net/ssc/ — The Superconducting Super Collider Laboratory was a DOE supported facility. The U.S. House of Representatives decided in 1993 to halt the project after14 miles of tunneling were completed and two billion dollars spent. The laboratory, located South of Dallas, TX, is in the final shutdown phase.

[SunkenCiv]

You’re right, the Moon is very dry. Water arrives from impacting debris, of course, but it doesn’t generally stick around. Using other stuff in the soil, and photovoltaic arrays (eventually those could be manufactured right on the spot), it might be possible to manufacture water.

[SunkenCiv]

Thanks! That’s mind-boggling, isn’t it? The Saturn V could *almost* put the empty STS orbiter into lunar orbit. :’D

[SunkenCiv]

Happy Birthday Saturn V, Still The Biggest Rocket of All
Gizmodo | 2008.11.09 | Kit Eaton
Posted on 11/10/2008 10:04:11 PM PST by B-Chan
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2129869/posts

[SunkenCiv]

Couldn’t we just mine the cheese on the Moon? ;’)