Posted on 11/07/2008 10:40:35 AM PST by Traviswf
Hi there. I voted for Obama, but have been reading a lot of Freerepublic lately to see how the other side is reacting. I'm not trying to troll here - honestly - but if you feel I am, that's understandable. I just wanted to offer a perspective on this that I think may be interesting to some of you. Oh, and this is much longer than I intended. And I'm fairly certain I'm not posting this the right way...for which I apologize.
When Bush was elected in 2000, I was upset. And yes, I whined about him "stealing" the election. I don't really think that's true anymore - it was just a painful way to lose. Sure, we can whine about the popular vote vs. the electoral vote, but you can't change the rules in the middle of the game. Then I watched the movie Recount and realized just how awful the democrats were at trying to win the damn thing. Gore seemed like he didn't really want it.
When Bush won in 2004, I was absolutely devastated. I thought the world was going to end. I didn't think we should be in Iraq, I agreed with Kerry that we had to finish the fight in Afganistan. I was worried about the courts. And frankly - I just didn't like Bush. I didn't like the way he governed, the way he spoke, and the way he talked as if we on the left were less American.
On 9/11 I happened to be in Toronto on business. When the towers fell, I knew I had to get home. A colleague and I wanted to go to New York, to help in some way. But we were told nobody was getting anywhere close. Our next instinct was to get home - to California. We didn't just want to be with our families, we desperately wanted to be in our country. That day was rough because my colleague thought his wife might have been on one of the planes - her travel plans were very similar. It took hours of agony before we, thank God, found out she was safe.
So we rented a car in Toronto and drove across the country. It took a couple hours to get across the border in the middle of the night. We stopped in Omaha, and then Colorado. I can't even tell you how much I loved my country driving across its beauty in those days after the attacks. And there were no jokes about "we're in enemy territory" because we were in "red states." We were in America. Everywhere we went people said "How are you? Is everyone safe?"
I know everyone has similar stories of those days. And certainly many, many people have stories of real loss - not just "we thought we lost someone, but it was a happy ending." Then, fairly quickly, I felt my patriotism coming under attack because I had a difference of opinion about how to fight back. I didn't think Iraq was the right choice - it made no sense to me, and I certainly wasn't alone. But people questioned my love of my country. And that was very, very hard to forgive.
When 2008 came up, more than anything, I wanted to win the White House back. I wanted to punish the Bush administration for what I felt was not just a failure to be competent, but a failure to keep the country united. I inititally supported Hilary, but I had this feeling in my gut that she was just going to be Bush - but for our side. She'd be a partisan warrior, a polarizing figure (which Bush wasn't when he started, but Hilary already was...). It made me sick to my stomach.
I wanted to go back to feeling like an American in those days after the attack - where our disagreements were things we laughed about over a beer and the real threat was far, far more serious.
I'd written Obama's candidacy off as a dry run for 2016 or later. Or maybe he was running for VP. I thought - hey, dude, at least finish a term in the Senate. Then when he said "we're not a collection of red states and blue states, we're the United States of America" it hit me like lightning. It had nothing to do with him - it had to do with the country, and my love for it and this feeling deep down in my gut that we were fighting over the placement of the deck chairs while the ship was sinking.
Wow, this got really rambly. Sorry about that. Here's why I posted initially. I saw this thing on here about Obama's "national defense force" and some posters commenting about the coming civil war or some such. I'm pretty sure Obama was just talking about funding for police. I mean - are you guys really worried he's going to do this? There was a rumor on the left that Bush was bringing a military brigade trained in "riot control" home from Iraq before the elections. People were convinced Bush was going to take over the country in a military coup. I'm sure you think that's laughable - as do I. Obama is not going to raise a civilian force of brown coats. First of all there's no money for it, nobody would go for it, and he'd be laughed out of the White House.
He's also not a socialist. And he's not coming for your guns. If he did either of this things, he can basically just go home now. Those are not realistic positions for any president to have. He will likely appoint liberals - at least too liberal for you guys - to the courts.
But here's the thing. He's going to try and be a good president. I think they all do. And Obama ran on uniting the country, on being bipartisan. That's sort of ALL he ran on. It's how he won 60% of independent and brought home so many of the Clinton voters. So if he doesn't deliver on this - I imagine he'll be fairly easy to beat in 2012.
So that's my two cents. Obama was always going to get my vote as the nominee because I'm a lifelong democrat and a liberal. But I'm not a socialist or a pacifist. I believe in the 2nd amendment and favor the idea of most issues being decided by the states. I'm not a religious man, but I respect those who are and I think the Dems over reach in pushing religion out of the public square. I believe global warming is a serious problem, but I also think Al Gore enjoys it WAY too much.
And here's another caveat. I know it's easier to be bipartisan and talk about "togetherness" when my guy won. I was where you guys are now in 2000 and 2004. I mean, my party ALMOST ran Howard Dean and then said "No wait! John Kerry is a much better idea!" Or in this election to have a friend say "You've GOT to read Alec Baldwin's latest piece on HuffPo." I mean...really? He doesn't count as an "Obamacon" you know, he only plays a republican on TV...(you guys ever notice that our most annoying Hollywood liberals end up playing republicans? what's with that?)
So yeah - we've all spent some time in the woods. I just hope we can all agree that we're just as American as the other, and we're passionate about what we believe to be the right path to take. There are real problems with the economy, and Islamic Terrorists aren't going to take a vacation for four years.
That's about it I guess. Sorry you guys lost.
Right, at least up to the point of when the "discussion" turns SERIOUS.
Then all bets are off.
Buyer's remorse has already started to settle in, what with the "Kinda Creepy Cult Of Personality" comment from the Newsweek guy, Jay Leno's I can't find anything to joke about Obama comment, and Brokaw and Charlie Rose discussing how little they really knew about the MGT (Muslim Ghetto Thug; my little nickname for him, kinda like the Left had "ChimpyMcBush" and "Bushitler", it's innocent and Patriotic to dissent, remember).
Oh, they'll gin up support around the Jan 20th spectacle, but give it time. The MGT and his Flying Monkeys will only be able to blame all the world's ills on Bush for so long, before even the densest of the dense begin to question the state of things.
I don’t think you’re trolling.
I hope for all of our sake that you are right about Obama. However, you speak about him with an authority that you cannot possibly have. Nobody knows the answer to so many questions about his past and about his worldview.
It’s not the same as just losing an election to a Democrat. That’s the way the pendulum swings sometimes. However, the election of this man scares me to death. Not because he’s a Democrat, but because I strongly suspect that his worldview is a Marxist Leninist one.
If you’re a liberal, I don’t understand how you can possibly support the goals of the current Democrat party leadership.
There’s nothing liberal about squelching free speech with the fairness doctrine. Nor is there anything liberal about a national ‘armed security force’, which you say is for police, but we don’t have or need federal police patrolling our streets. What are they patrolling them for? Does this sound liberal to you? There is nothing liberal about allowing union thugs to intimidate workers into unionizing with the card check.
The goals of the current leadership of the Democrat party are closer to fascism than liberalism. For all the talk from DUers about GWB being a fascist dictator, they should be reminded that people have been calling him every nasty name in the book for 8 years, even making movies and writing books about him being assassinated. He never tried to stop any of it. The same cannot be said for BHO. He calls anyone who tells the truth about his record a ‘liar’. He vows to stop ‘lies’ from being broadcast, by threatening TV and radio stations. Democrat party operatives have done background checks on ordinary citizens who dared to ask BHO a question. Does any of this really sound liberal to you? Does it even sound American?
I’m all for unity, but I’m not going to unify with a Marxist agenda, nor will I sit still while my rights are taken away. And I’m talking about REAL rights here, like freedom of speech and the right to bear arms. Not some imaginary crap that DUers rail on about GWB taking away.
I don’t believe all the crap from Fox Obama TV from Carl Cameron about McCain and Palin. Don’t fall for this unnamed sources garbage. I am not a huge McCain fan but we are being fed lies from Fox.
A lot more when the Obamabortions kick in in January.
If you believe in Jesus (as I do), or even Karma.
How do you justify this holocaust of the unborn?
Assuming you’re not trolling:
“I saw this thing on here about Obama’s “national defense force” and some posters commenting about the coming civil war or some such. I’m pretty sure Obama was just talking about funding for police.”
Obama is a well spoken man who chooses words carefully, Funding police officers is *not* a “national” defense force. He means something different perhaps a national police department but that is *exactly* what we are afraid of.
“First of all there’s no money for it, nobody would go for it, and he’d be laughed out of the White House.”
Yes if he use the words ‘brown coats’ (nice firefly reference) but he wont. If he institutes a national police force it will be under the auspices of the FBI or some other well sounding banner.
“He’s also not a socialist.”
He is a pragmatic socialist, he wants more federal funding for education, law enforcement, health care, and several other keys areas. He wants to get us to socialism but he knows its a pill Americans wont swallow whole so well get it in little bits.
“And he’s not coming for your guns”
He wants to renew the AWB, he believes in restrictions to the second amendment and I, who have never owned a gun in my life, am planning on buying one because I dont know if I will be able to do so in ten years.
“And Obama ran on uniting the country, on being bipartisan”
So did Bush (in 2000) how do you think that worked out? McCain had a history of Bipartisan work in the senate BO served 2 years (he spent 2007/8 running for office) and in that time he was one of the most liberal and party line senators in the entire congress.
“It’s how he won 60% of independent and brought home so many of the Clinton voters.”
He got ‘clinton voters’ because he ran against Bush, *I* could have won on the democratic ticket this time around. He also convinced people he was going to pay their mortgages and make sure they could fill their gas tank.
“I believe global warming is a serious problem, but I also think Al Gore enjoys it WAY too much. “
Do you think man is responsible? Based on what? bear in mind the past two years has wiped out most of the mean global temperature increases for the past 30.
The rest of us did lots of research on Obama so we know what he is & what his plans are ao we voted against him. Most Obama voters are much like you are & voted on 'feelings instead of facts'.
I have no problem with you being here for the sake of reasonable discussion. Maybe you'll learn something. Welcome to Free Republic.
Just curious Travis, what do you think about obamas 20 year relationship with a racist like Jeremiah Wright? A guy who he considered his mentor and like an uncle? How about Michelle, who couldn’t find anything to be proud of here until her husband ran for office? Bill Ayers a domestic terrorist who helped Obama launch his campaign? Acorn and their voter fraud shenanigans who Obama worked with for years.
“He has already backtracking on two promises and he has only been elected three days”!
...I missed that one. What two promises? Thanks.
As a conservative, i'd like to point out 2 things (with my own emphases) so that you might ponder them and really take note how they affect you both politically (liberal) and personally.
1. You said: "I don't really think that's true anymore - it was just a painful way to lose. Sure, we can whine about the popular vote vs. the electoral vote, but you can't change the rules in the middle of the game. Then I watched the movie Recount and realized just how awful the democrats were at trying to win the damn thing."
Note that you were assessing things factually, with thought and reason on your side.
Then you said:"I felt my patriotism coming under attack because I had a difference of opinion about how to fight back...I wanted to win the White House back. I wanted to punish the Bush administration.
Note here that you are looking at things emotionally, you have internalized any perceived slight causing you to be angry.
Can you see the difference? Conservatives can will always avoid arguing from a position of emotion. You and I can get along politically, outside of our personal emotions. Our common ground is the Constitution from where we should always take facts and present them with thought and reason...not emotion. That's what makes a conservative.
Actually America is not your country. You voted for a big time socialist/Marxist. I’d say your country is more along the lines of Venezuela or Cuba. I wished to hell you all would move to one of them and stop making a sh!thole out of ours.
Obama voters = socialist FREELOADERS
No, you're not, but you may well be in the future. Please God, let me be wrong.
I don’t think that you or the other idiots that voted for barry have a clue as to who or what he is.
And Obama's first action was to pick as Chief of Staff, Rahm Emanual, arguably the meanest, most partisan prick in politics.
How is that being "uniting" and "bipartisan"?
I’m guessing you are younger than me. I don’t think you remember Jimmy Carter. I do. I was in my teens when he was president, and he was awful!!!!!!!!!
I don’t think Clinton was as bad as Carter. These are the things to remember about Carter. First, he is the reason we are having problems with Iran. He allowed the Shaw to be removed, and did nothing about radical Islam at that time. As we all know, the situation has only gotten worse since then.
Then there was the “energy crisis”. I can remember beautiful Christmas lights everywhere when I was a young child. Christmas was always beautiful, and then the Carter years and the “energy crisis” and no one put out Christmas lights. People still don’t put them out like they did when I was little. It was just depressing.
Then we have to remember the gas lines of the “energy crisis”. I turned 16 during Carter. I can remember only being able to buy gasoline on certain days, and then you had to wait in line to get it. I had a job that I had to drive to, and it was a pain in the but to get gas.
Obama reminds me of Carter, and it was a long, depressing 4 years. I think we are in for a terrible 4 years, but my husband reminds me that Jimmy Carter gave us Ronald Reagan.
The question is - who will you stand with when he does?
Look at his new government financial website http://www.change.gov
Don't tell me the president-elect isn't a friggin socialist.
The one good aspect is that we've already moved our business offshore. Hussein will NEVER touch our business's hard earned dollars. Fortunately for America that it will be the American business that will bring Hussein to his knees (can't depend on free loading class of citizens to do the job). In two years we can look forward to a swing in the House back to conservatism with a general take over of both House and Senate in 4-6 years.
People are already expressing voters remorse. Funny isn't it...Hussein wins the election with around 54% of the popular vote yet his favorables have already slipped to 40%. Enjoy you short lived era of socialism because it will be of brief duration.
First, do you realize how difficult it is for one party to retain the Presidency 3 times in a row? Pretty hard
If change was what we wanted (so it is said) why were so many congressmen re-elected?
I do not thik Obama is ill-willed. I do believe that he will abandon a promise when it suits him (public funding of elections - the first candidate to refuse it and it’s limitations). The definite illegal fundraising (fraudulent contributors and foreigners) on his web-site tells me that he also believes that the rule of law does not apply if the end (his election) justifies the means.
As for the National Civilian Defence Force - no one (McCain or the press) pushed him to explain it. I doubt they will now.
Did you notice how there was no discussion of illegal immigration? Because both candidates are flawed in that area vs what the electorate wants, so it was ignored.
The difference between liberal and conservative, in my mind at least is security vs freedom. A large government influence is more secure but you give up freedom (choices taken away so that you cannot fail), a small government influence means freedom but less security (you might as an individual fail).
Believe it or not prohibition was a liberal (progressive) idea, not conservative
As another posters tagline says “most men do not want freedom, they want a just master”.
Okay, he's a communist. Either way, he's bad for America.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.