Monsoon link to fall of dynasties[China]

Maybe of interest, weather and ancient China.

So ancient Chinese were seeking “change?”

That’s interesting, it’s like Diamond’s idea in “Collapse”, that societies that don’t have conservationism (notice I didn’t say “environmentalism”) are vulnerable to changes in weather patterns. A lot of the ancient religions were based on weather and seasons because back then farmers literally lived and died by that.

The Yuan dynasty was MONGOL! Started with a chap named Qublai Quan. So the Chinese weren't all that unhappy to see them go. The Ming revolt had a lot more to do with recession, taxation and internecine Mongol conflict [plus two failed invasions of Japan] than the rhythm [or lack thereof] of the falling rain . The Ming were overthrown by the Manchus. They brought artillery, not weather fronts. Can't really speak about the Tang.

‘[plus two failed invasions of Japan]’

Heh, weather played a huge part on the latter invasion.

Yeah. But not weather in China.

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Notice how they try to make it a ‘global warming’ thing too..

Here's a snip from an omnibus file I have for just such occasions. :')

Caves reveal clues to UK weather
by Tom Heap
At Pooles Cavern in Derbyshire, it was discovered that the stalagmites grow faster in the winter months when it rains more. Alan Walker, who guides visitors through the caves, says the changes in rainfall are recorded in the stalactites and stalagmites like the growth rings in trees. Stalagmites from a number of caves have now been analysed by Dr Andy Baker at Newcastle University. After splitting and polishing the rock, he can measure its growth precisely and has built up a precipitation history going back thousands of years. His study suggests this autumn's rainfall is not at all unusual when looked at over such a timescale but is well within historic variations. He believes politicians find it expedient to blame a man-made change in our weather rather than addressing the complex scientific picture.

I like that closing sentence -- "future decision-making could be made based on scientific data and not on political expediency". I wouldn't count on it, but that would be great.

Stalagmites reveal past climate
by Kristina Bartlett and Devra Wexler
The researchers examined four stalagmites from Crevice Cave, the longest cave known in Missouri, located about 75 miles south of St. Louis. The stalagmites appeared to have been broken by natural forces such as floods or earthquakes and were found about 80 feet below the ground surface, says Dorale. The team determined when the stalagmite layers were deposited, then deduced paleotemperatures and the general types of vegetation growing in the vicinity during that era by examining the carbon and oxygen isotopes within the calcium carbonate. The profile showed that the area had been covered by forest 75,000 years ago, but by 71,000 years ago, it was savannah and by 59,000 years ago, had become a prairie. Between 55,000 and 25,000 years ago, the forest had returned and persisted. Dorale explains that the pattern is consistent with climatological records from the ocean.
Carbon clock could show the wrong time
A study led by physicist Warren Beck of the University of Arizona discovered an enormous peak in the amount of carbon-14 in the atmosphere between 45 thousand and 11 thousand years ago. Living organisms and some geological features absorb stable carbon-12 and radioactive carbon-14, which are present in the air in a well-known ratio. Scientists use carbon dating to determine when objects ceased to absorb carbon by measuring how much of the carbon-14 - which has a half-life of 5730 years - has decayed. Beck and colleagues tested slices of a half-metre long stalagmite that grew between 45 000 and 11 000 years ago in a cave in the Bahamas. Galactic cosmic rays create most of the carbon-14 in our atmosphere, while solar cosmic rays generate a smaller fraction. The Earth is partially shielded from galactic cosmic rays by its own magnetic field and the solar magnetic field, which fluctuates as the solar cycle proceeds. These effects are predictable and are thought to have changed little in the last million years - which means they cannot explain the glut of carbon-14. The team speculates that a supernova shock wave could have produced a flurry of cosmic rays.
Stalagmite discovery throws doubt on carbon dating
by Charles Arthur
Technology Editor
11 July 2001
The formations, recovered from a cavern which was created when sea levels were about 100m (330ft) lower than today, showed that more than 20,000 years ago there were dramatic shifts in the amount of radioactive carbon - often known as "carbon-14" - in the atmosphere. Because the ratio of carbon-14 to its stable cousin, carbon-12, is used as the basis of carbon dating of fossils, any widespread variation in that balance would confuse the dating of items such as plants or animals which existed around those times. "It means we have tended to underestimate the true age of objects from 20,000 to 40,000 years ago by up to 8,000 years," said Dr David Richards, of the School of Geographical Sciences at the University of Bristol. However, he added, "this may change the timings, but it won't change the order of events."

Eh? Obviously, if there's an enrichment of C14 for a period, the following period will have appeared to be older -- but it wasn't! As volcanic eruptions are basically entirely C12, they are not the source of the surfeit of C14.

Dating study 'means human history rethink'
29 June, 2001
The scientists calculated the age of ancient limestone formations in caves using carbon dating. The results were checked using a newer, more accurate method known as uranium dating. They found that the carbon dates were wrong by thousands of years and that the further back in time they went, the more out-of-date they were. The reason is that carbon dating measures radioactive carbon and there may have been much more of it in the distant past than previously thought.
Carbon dating 'might be wrong by 10,000 years'
by Roger Highfield
Science Editor
Saturday 30 June 2001
Their study could force a reappraisal of when certain events occurred, notably in the period when modern humans lived alongside Neanderthals in Europe. It suggests that modern humans might have lived in Europe for longer than thought and that prehistoric paintings recently found in the Chauvet cave, in southern France, might be 38,000-years-old rather than the estimated 33,000 years... Radiocarbon dating, which depends on the steady decay of carbon-14, is less reliable if an artefact is older than 16,000 years. But the changes in radiocarbon, and dating, fluctuate greatly up to 45,000 years, the limit of the study.

Here's another segment: An Anglo-American team found large variations in levels of the carbon-14 isotope, used as the basis of carbon dating, preserved in a 19in stalagmite recovered from a submerged cave in the Blue Holes of the Bahamas, limestone caverns created when sea levels were nearly 330ft lower than today. These findings suggested dramatic changes in the amount of radioactive carbon in Earth's atmosphere during the last Ice Age, much greater than previously thought, probably as a result of changes in the strength of the planet's magnetic field. The field shields Earth from cosmic rays that create carbon-14 in the atmosphere, altering levels of the isotope during the past 45,000 years.

Carbon Dating Revision May Rewrite History
Unknown Country
02-Jul-2001

These findings suggested dramatic changes in the amount of radioactive carbon in Earth's atmosphere during the last Ice Age, probably as a result of changes in the strength of the planet's magnetic field. The field shields Earth from the cosmic rays that create carbon-14 in the atmosphere, and this would have altered the levels of the isotope during the past 45,000 years.

Disaster that struck the ancients

Professor Fekri Hassan, from University College London, UK, wanted to solve the mystery, by gathering together scientific clues. His inspiration was the little known tomb in southern Egypt of a regional governor, Ankhtifi. The hieroglyphs there reported "all of Upper Egypt was dying of hunger to such a degree that everyone had come to eating their children". Dismissed as exaggeration and fantasy by most other Egyptologists, Fekri was determined to prove the writings were true and accurate. He also had to find a culprit capable of producing such misery. He studied the meticulous records, kept since the 7th Century, of Nile floods. He was amazed to see that there was a huge variation in the size of the annual Nile floods - the floods that were vital for irrigating the land. But no records existed for 2,200BC. Then came a breakthrough - a new discovery in the hills of neighbouring Israel. Mira Bar-Matthews of the Geological Survey of Israel had found a unique record of past climates, locked in the stalactites and stalagmites of a cave near Tel Aviv. What they show is a sudden and dramatic drop in rainfall, by 20%. It is the largest climate event in 5,000 years. And the date? 2,200 BC.

Whoops, loused up the formatting during editing.

From the link:
"Scientists say the natural archive shows that climate change can have devastating effects on local populations - even when this change is mild when averaged across the globe."

So, there is historical precedent for the climate changing?

Beam me to Planet Gore !

......The stalagmites appeared to have been broken by natural forces such as floods or earthquakes and were found about 80 feet below the ground surface, .....

Cavers creed..... take only pictures, leave only foot prints

Any other Cavers here?

Yeah. I used to be a member of NSS but they started supporting plugging caves from exploration by the commons.

Chinese emperor was poisoned with arsenic
The Telegraph | 04 Nov 2008 | Richard Spencer
Posted on 11/04/2008 11:10:03 AM PST by nickcarraway
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2124885/posts

New archaeological discovery rewrites earliest Chinese characters dating
Xinhua | Friday, October 24, 2008 | Editor: Yan
Posted on 10/29/2008 5:27:53 PM PDT by SunkenCiv
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2119140/posts