Fundamentalist doctrine does not belong in schools

The Oklahoma Daily ^ | August 25, 2008 | Zac Smith

[Soliton]

In June, Governor Brad Henry vetoed the “Religious Viewpoints Antidiscrimination Act,” a piece of legislature authored by Sen. James Williamson and infamous fundamentalist Rep. Sally Kern.

If passed, this bill would have, among other things, guaranteed that “students may express their beliefs about religion in homework, artwork and other written and oral assignments free from discrimination based on the religious content of their submissions.”

You read that correctly.

Answer on a test that the universe began 6,000 years ago with a few words from the mouth of an invisible, magical entity rather than 13.73 billion years ago with the expansion of energy from gravitational singularity? A-plus!

So it might have been if Gov. Henry hadn’t interceded. I’d like to tell Henry: Thank you from the bottom of my heart, and God bless you.

And to those of you who weren’t kicking up a fuss about the bill or at least complaining about it on your blogs: What were you thinking?

This isn’t the first time Kern and those like her have tried to insinuate superstitious nonsense into the curriculum of our state’s children, and it certainly won’t be the last.

Some of you may be too busy to follow each shot fired in the battle between the proponents of intelligent design the nom de guerre behind which creationism usually hides when its proponents seek to incorporate it into educational curricula — and its detractors.

[Soliton]

Behold the jackass in its natural environment: the internet.

That's quite an admission. I'm proud of you. Are you in some kind of 12 step program?

[fwdude]

It is unconstitutional to teach Creationism in school and ID is just Creationism.

You win the cigar. Most asinine statement on FR to date!

[sirchtruth]

...putting nonsense in science papers.

You mean opposed to the nonsense which is already part of scientific theory? No fact, means opinion or belief, and that's exactly what you have with evolution. In fact, it's much more than just opinion, evolution has become a cult because of the egotistical, agenda driven side of science.

[Mr. Silverback]

Yeah, the whole point of this bill must be intelligent design. It couldn’t be designed to prevent stuff like kids getting an F for turning in a homework assignment that mentions Jesus or anything. After all, that’s never happened in the whole history of public schooling...

Then there’s the fact that if intelligent design was half as stupid and dishonest as you guys say it is, any science teacher could demolish it on the first day of seventh grade science class.

[Soliton]

Conclusion: why not give the parents more say of what their kids are taught?

Who's stopping parents teaching their kids? Besides go back and read Genesis again. Plants were created before the sun. A whole lot of plants must have died during that time.

[ketelone]

Because that leads to a slippery slope! Parents can want anything at all taught! That there is no god but Allah, and Muhammad is his prophet? Some parents want that. That bacterial infection is gods punishment visited upon us, and we must pray to rid ourself of it? There is no end, once unproven ideas are turned into, forgive the word, gospel in our educational system.

[Soliton]

“You win the cigar. Most asinine statement on FR to date!”

Supreme Court ruling in Edwards vs. Aguillard banning teaching Creationism in public schools:

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/edwards-v-aguillard.html

[John Leland 1789]

“students may express their beliefs about religion in homework, artwork and other written and oral assignments free from discrimination based on the religious content of their submissions.”

---

someone would want to teach children that it is wrong to express what they believe in their assignments? SHAME!

I did express often what I believed in my assignments when i was in public education through high school. I was never criticized by any teacher for doing so, as I was never disrespectful or threatening when doing so.

Why should it be any different now?

[Soliton]

Here we present a draft genome sequence of the common chimpanzee (Pan troglodytes). Through comparison with the human genome, we have generated a largely complete catalogue of the genetic differences that have accumulated since the human and chimpanzee species diverged from our common ancestor, constituting approximately thirty-five million single-nucleotide changes, five million insertion/deletion events, and various chromosomal rearrangements. We use this catalogue to explore the magnitude and regional variation of mutational forces shaping these two genomes, and the strength of positive and negative selection acting on their genes. In particular, we find that the patterns of evolution in human and chimpanzee protein-coding genes are highly correlated and dominated by the fixation of neutral and slightly deleterious alleles. We also use the chimpanzee genome as an outgroup to investigate human population genetics and identify signatures of selective sweeps in recent human evolution.

[BRK]

Here goes another Flame war! It is always the case when anyone mentions Creation vs Evolution that it devolves quickly into a flame war. Sometimes I help by pointing out the utter hoplessness and pointlessness of existence that evolutionary thought leads to. I admit that is still not proof of anything though is it?

Bottom line is that neither view can be proven or disproven by thought arguments. So pick your God, either from an old book, or from swooping arrows on a Scholastic evolution poster. Dinosaur -> SWOOPING ARROW -> Bird !... Monkey -> SWOOPING ARROW -> Man !

Choose wisely.

Can somebody please post a picture of a Swooping Arrow like used on evolution posters? Isn't that a divine image indeed? How about if we could show a picture of Darwin on a cross with a crown of Swooping Arrows and nailed to the cross with swooping arrows? Can I get a government grant or something for that?

[Soliton]

ID doesn’t exist. It has been proven to be Creationism in disguise.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-tk7MkHKtI

[theBuckwheat]

This article points out yet another reason that public education is a very bad idea. The left was happy to seize education as a path to indoctrination, yet are oh so sensitive when others want their fair share of the captive student’s minds. If parents were free to choose where they sent their children to be educated, this would not be an issue.

[Soliton]

Sometimes I help by pointing out the utter hoplessness and pointlessness of existence that evolutionary thought leads to. I admit that is still not proof of anything though is it?

Funny, I don't see the utter hopelessness or pointlessness of existence. There have been men who have loved life and died happy long before Jesus stepped foot on Earth.

[Mr. Silverback]

Hey Soliton, stay classy! I thought you were interested in educating people about science...but I'll do the job if I must. Shery, those who say evolution can't be true because it's a theory are misusing the word. Here's a few paragraphs I wrote on this subject a couple of years ago:

That word, “theory,” is a big part of the problem. Many of those in favor of teaching intelligent design (especially non-scientists) use the word as a synonym for “speculation” or “hypothesis,” much in the same way that Creationists do. “Evolution is just a theory,” they will say. For their part, many opponents of teaching it (especially non-scientists) use the word as a synonym for “law,” or “proven facts.” They will point to ironclad theories like atomic theory or the theory of relativity as examples and make accusations of ignorance, bias or trickery against those who see evolution as anything but a proven fact on the level of gravity or germ theory.

The problem with this is that a theory is not a guess or a fact, but a system or a model. It is a way of looking at phenomena, and sometimes it is new and relatively speculative and flawed, and other times it is well-proven and factual. The word “theory” is like the word “automobile.” Both the Edsel and the Corvette are a type of system described by the word “automobile,” but one was a disaster and the other is a revered classic. What we have is one group of people saying “Automobiles are Edsels” and another saying “Automobiles are Corvettes.” Most of the scientists seem to realize that neither statement is true; most of the people arguing on the talking head shows and on the editorial pages seem to be missing it.

Astronomy gives us a number of examples of scientific Edsels. Take for example the model of the Universe put forth by the 2nd Century astronomer Ptolemy. He had the Earth at the center of the Universe, with the stars on a rotating globe that surrounded the solar system. In his theory, the planets not only rotated around the Earth, but also circled around in a smaller orbit called an epicycle. Ptolemy’s model even fit the available data: The epicycles explained the retrograde motion of the planets, a phenomenon no one had properly explained before.

Of course, we know Ptolemy was way off. But we also know that his model was a theory, and that the correct model that replaced it was also a theory.

I hope I've been helpful.

[Mr. Silverback]

Dang straight!

[sirchtruth]

In the beginning God created heaven and earth.

Tell me the "scientific" difference between your thesis and the above?

[Soliton]

My thesis is consistent with observable facts and experimental evidence and does not rely on magic.

[Arthur Wildfire! March]

“Who’s stopping parents teaching their kids?”

Oh I dunno, high taxes maybe? Working moms needing to pay off taxes? A fortune shoveled into public schools while moms have to work. Things like that.

[Mr. Silverback]

You know what I really miss? I miss the old days, back in the Fifties and earlier, when we used to have prayer and even scripture reading in the schools, and illegitimacy was at an all time high, STDs were rampant, every school had to worry about shootings, homonormative doctrination was the standard and our schools couldn't even do as good a job as countries spending half the money.

Oh wait...there's something wrong with that. I guess all that stuff came after we stopped "proselytizing" in the schools by acknowledging that a Creator exists. You know, you post the Ten Commandments and everyone automatically converts to Christianity, it's simple as pie...

[Soliton]

Hey Soliton, stay classy!

Good advice. There should be a delete button on here. I apologize Shery. My feeble excuse is that I have typed my fingers raw posting scientific articles supporting evolution and every so often someone comes along and says there is NO evidence for evolution. It is no excuse for getting personal and again, Shery, I'm sorry.