Anti-evolution, pro science conservatives

WorldNetDaily ^ | 3/29/2008 | Gary Bauer and Daniel Allott

[wastedpotential]

Of all the factors that led to Mike Huckabee's demise in the 2008 presidential sweepstakes (insufficient funds, lack of foreign policy experience), there's one that has been largely overlooked: Huckabee's disbelief in the theory of evolution as it is generally understood – without the involvement of the Creator.

Perhaps you're thinking: What's evolution got to do with being president? Very little, as Huckabee was quick to remind reporters on the campaign trail. But from the moment the former Baptist minister revealed his beliefs on evolutionary biology, political commentators and scientists lambasted him. Some even suggested those beliefs should disqualify him from high office.

We believe most Americans

[onewhowatches]

Since the admin mod says it will be ignored:

You still need your rabies shots.

I wasn't aware that you were rabid so that any of us had to worry about it.

It would be easier to put you to sleep, rather than all of us get our shots.

[editor-surveyor]

Dementia? or just intoxication?

[tokenatheist]

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&hs=kH9&q=%22intermediate+species%22&btnG=Search

Results 1 - 10 of about 104,000 for “intermediate species”. (0.20 seconds)

Just like I said.

[freedomfiter2]

There are many who refuse government handouts for conscience sake. They are being taken to the cleaners.

[Amendment10]

This post (<-click), while addressing a controversy about a 10 Commandments monument, tells how FDR's establishment of Social Security, and other constitutionally unauthorized federal spending programs, arguably helped to create today's secularism-favoring environment in which attacks on creationism never seem to stop.

Again, as indicated by the referenced post, by unthinkingly knocking down the 10th A. protected powers of the states to start his New Deal federal spending programs, FDR unwittingly fueled the flames of secularism as evidence by this very thread.

[tokenatheist]

What attacks on creationism?

Simply pointing out that something isn’t science isn’t an attack if it is true.

[AndrewC]

Right. Everyone knows that they are the result of DNA improvements

...

I am reflecting the evidence of science

Well then perhaps you can provide the color they improved upon or, really, since they are DNA improvements, the sequence they improved.

[RussP]

“Dr. Sarfati has a PH.D. in Chemistry and in my opinion, has thoroughly dispelled the myths perpetrated by Hugh Ross.”

I must admit that I am perplexed by young earth creationists. They seem to be willing to ignore basic evidence for the age of the universe based on the red shift of light from distant galaxies.

I can’t imagine what in the world is so important about the idea of literal 24-hour creation days. I just don’t get it. Hugh Ross has explained that the Hebrew word used in Genesis for “day” can also mean “era” or “epoch.”

What is truly sad is that the young-earth view is actually causing many scientists and other “rational” people to reject Christianity and the Bible over a silly translation error. What a pity.

[onewhowatches]

Dementia? or just intoxication?

You said you were rabid, so I'm assuming what you have is dementia. However, just because you're rabid doesn't mean you can't also be drinking. Therefore, that foaming at your mouth may not actually be a symptom of rabies, but just beer foam.

[Coyoteman]

"But evolution is supported by quite a bit of physical evidence."

Then why has none of it ever been produced for inspection? Even one clear intermediate species would do wonders.

Here are two examples from the literature. They are clear enough that even creationists should be able to see and understand them. You'll deny it, of course, but you asked for the evidence so here it is.

---

This is a transitional (or intermediate). Note its position in the chart which follows (hint--in the right center):

Fossil: KNM-ER 3733

Site: Koobi Fora (Upper KBS tuff, area 104), Lake Turkana, Kenya (4, 1)

Discovered By: B. Ngeneo, 1975 (1)

Estimated Age of Fossil: 1.75 mya * determined by Stratigraphic, faunal, paleomagnetic & radiometric data (1, 4)

Species Name: Homo ergaster (1, 7, 8), Homo erectus (3, 4, 7), Homo erectus ergaster (25)

Gender: Female (species presumed to be sexually dimorphic) (1, 8)

Cranial Capacity: 850 cc (1, 3, 4)

Information: Tools found in same layer (8, 9). Found with KNM-ER 406 A. boisei (effectively eliminating single species hypothesis) (1)

Interpretation: Adult (based on cranial sutures, molar eruption and dental wear) (1)

See original source for notes:
Source: http://www.mos.org/evolution/fossils/fossilview.php?fid=33

Source

---

And if the above is too much of a problem for you, dealing with old bones and all, here is one that consists of still living populations. You can go and check it out for yourself!

Ring species provide unusual and valuable situations in which we can observe two species and the intermediate forms connecting them. In a ring species:

• A ring of populations encircles an area of unsuitable habitat.
• At one location in the ring of populations, two distinct forms coexist without interbreeding, and hence are different species.
• Around the rest of the ring, the traits of one of these species change gradually, through intermediate populations, into the traits of the second species.

A ring species, therefore, is a ring of populations in which there is only one place where two distinct species meet. Ernst Mayr called ring species "the perfect demonstration of speciation" because they show a range of intermediate forms between two species. They allow us to use variation in space to infer how changes occurred over time. This approach is especially powerful when we can reconstruct the biogeographical history of a ring species, as has been done in two cases. Source

But, I fully expect you to hand-wave all of this evidence away. Go ahead!

The lurkers can see who is posting peer-reviewed scientific evidence and who is simply denying clear and obvious reality for religious reasons.

[Coyoteman]

Well then perhaps you can provide the color they improved upon or, really, since they are DNA improvements, the sequence they improved.

Sure.

Dark skin is ideal for Africa and other equatorial areas. The Mediterranean had a different climate, so people in that area have a lighter skin color with tanning ability to provide a better adaptation between protection from ultraviolet radiation (dark skin--summer) and production of vitamin D (light skin--winter). Farther north skin colors are lighter still, reflecting adaptation to still less intense ultraviolet radiation and the need for more vitamin D production. These topics are well discussed in books on human races and adaptation. You should check out a few. I can provide references if you really are interested.

As for DNA sequences, talk to the genetics folks.

[Fichori]

I did a quick Google search for "intelligent design"...

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=intelligent+design&spell=1
Results 1 - 10 of about 9,400,000 for intelligent design. (0.13 seconds)

I may have misunderstood your post, but does this mean
that 'intelligent design' is 90.38 times more true than 'intermediate species'?

[Ohwhynot]

Would you care to define “intermediate species”, please?

While any species that functions as a transition between two species is an “intermediate” species, they are, at the same time, a species unto themselves, and so not truly an “intermediate” species.

As I am certain you understand, but repeat here for the sake of clarity, evolution functions as a series of minor, beneficial changes over the course of generations (and, as a result, thousands of years), that eventually results in a plant or an animal sufficiently diverged from its ancestors that it can no longer be thought of as the same species (at least, in common thought; scientifically, the point where it’s considered a separate species is if they can no longer reproduce with one another).

So, well, what makes a “transitional species” in your eyes, then? If it’s evolved naturally, it’s a species unto itself, and not a “transition”; if it’s some horrifying chimera clearly intended to serve as some way to turn one species into another, it’s a transition, but it obviously hasn’t evolved (there being no reproductive or survival benefit to such a monster).

Obviously, one of my assumptions of your question was incorrect, so I outlined them above, that we may avoid misunderstandings.

[valkyry1]

No one is hand waving away any evidence Coyote, but those skulls you post as transitionals are not skulls at all, rather they are composite constructs made up of fragments in the hundreds.

I enlarged this skull image here once, and started counting. I think I quit when I got to about 80 pieces, and that was just from that right side profile of the skull. The rear skull area definitely looks out of place. and then all of these pieces are 1.70 million years old by their best estimates.

If it was me, I would not put my PHD on such a composite construction, and evolutionists (no thats not a pejorative) have been fooled by much less many a time.

These composites may well be peer reviewed, and they call it science, but this area of science is falling away in the mainstream world because people can see these things for what they are, a projection of some mans imagination. These skulls in a way tell the story of a man's life work, and to me it is a tale of tragedy.

[AndrewC]

Dark skin is ideal for Africa and other equatorial areas.

Tierra del fuego is not equatorial.

But that is a rehash of observation not a relationship of "improvement". You imply that, generally, dark skinned people in the north should have health problems due to lack of vitamin D deficiency. I've never heard such a thing. Plus I have never heard of light-skinned persons, generally, having health problems due to excessive vitamin D production at the equator. So I reject your explanation of the "improvement". You don't even try a just-so story for the DNA sequence improved upon.

[metmom]

Isaac Newton was brilliant about some things and a real kook about others. He spent a ridiculous amount of his time on alchemy.

We know now that alchemy doesn't work. He was just doing the prevailing science of the day when he did his work on alchemy.

[metmom]

First post the day you signed up.

No Admission for Evolutionary Biologist at Creationist Film

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1991186/posts?page=16#16

[Hacksaw]

Its not just an "image" -- its a fact. This website is a prime example. Most scientists have left in disgust. They probably got tired of being told that they were going to hell, or being compared to nazis.

The "scientists" you speak of had some strange habits, like thread hijacking and even invading a prayer thread, after being warned not to by a moderator. Just maybe their own behavior had something to do with their demise. But the fact of the matter is that FR is a website for conservative politics, not obsessing over the theory of evolution. That's why most people don't know or care that the "scientists" have been given the boot.

[mamelukesabre]

No, fair skinned people in equatorial regions don’t suffer from excessive vitamin D production. They suffer from chronic sunburns and the various ailments resulting from that...eventually cancer.

There are exceptions to the fair skinned people dominating the northern latitudes rule of thumb. I’d have to check to make sure, but I think people that hunt whale get plenty of vitD from their food. So lighter skin wouldn’t give them any benefit.

You have to remember that in colder climates, people wear lots of clothes. They must absorb all their sun light through their faces. So there are two things happening. Less skin exposed to sunlight, and less sunlight. Also, forests and climate probably play a role. People that live in heavily forested regions are going to get less sunlight. People that live in cold forests where fog and mist is common and the nights are long in the winter are really going to get limited sunlight.

[Coyoteman]

Tierra del fuego is not equatorial.

Those folks haven't been there very long. They still retain the general skin color of their Siberian ancestors. The skin color changes throughout the Americas are (or were) a "work in progress" as these things generally take time.

You imply that, generally, dark skinned people in the north should have health problems due to lack of vitamin D deficiency.

Modern groups have vitamin D fortified milk (that's the reason its there!). Groups in the far north supplement their diets with fish oils. They live too far north to get any appreciable vitamin D from the sun, and they can't expose their skin to the sun for very long anyway, lest it freeze.

I've never heard such a thing.

That means nothing. Try reading some books on human races.

Plus I have never heard of light-skinned persons, generally, having health problems due to excessive vitamin D production at the equator.

The problem for light-skinned people at the equator is not excessive vitamin D production, it is cancer caused by excessive ultraviolet radiation reaching the lower skin layers. That is why the skin needs to be dark. Of course, modern light-skinned folks can avoid this problem (and sunburn) by wearing clothes, hats and using sun screens.

So I reject your explanation of the "improvement". You don't even try a just-so story for the DNA sequence improved upon.

Reject away. But until you learn something about the subject, your rejection means nothing.

Really, I have 20-30 books on human races and closely related topics at the office. I would be happy to provide some titles.