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To: editor-surveyor
"But evolution is supported by quite a bit of physical evidence."

Then why has none of it ever been produced for inspection? Even one clear intermediate species would do wonders.

Here are two examples from the literature. They are clear enough that even creationists should be able to see and understand them. You'll deny it, of course, but you asked for the evidence so here it is.



This is a transitional (or intermediate). Note its position in the chart which follows (hint--in the right center):

Fossil: KNM-ER 3733

Site: Koobi Fora (Upper KBS tuff, area 104), Lake Turkana, Kenya (4, 1)

Discovered By: B. Ngeneo, 1975 (1)

Estimated Age of Fossil: 1.75 mya * determined by Stratigraphic, faunal, paleomagnetic & radiometric data (1, 4)

Species Name: Homo ergaster (1, 7, 8), Homo erectus (3, 4, 7), Homo erectus ergaster (25)

Gender: Female (species presumed to be sexually dimorphic) (1, 8)

Cranial Capacity: 850 cc (1, 3, 4)

Information: Tools found in same layer (8, 9). Found with KNM-ER 406 A. boisei (effectively eliminating single species hypothesis) (1)

Interpretation: Adult (based on cranial sutures, molar eruption and dental wear) (1)

See original source for notes:
Source: http://www.mos.org/evolution/fossils/fossilview.php?fid=33

Source



And if the above is too much of a problem for you, dealing with old bones and all, here is one that consists of still living populations. You can go and check it out for yourself!

Ring species provide unusual and valuable situations in which we can observe two species and the intermediate forms connecting them. In a ring species:

A ring species, therefore, is a ring of populations in which there is only one place where two distinct species meet. Ernst Mayr called ring species "the perfect demonstration of speciation" because they show a range of intermediate forms between two species. They allow us to use variation in space to infer how changes occurred over time. This approach is especially powerful when we can reconstruct the biogeographical history of a ring species, as has been done in two cases. Source

But, I fully expect you to hand-wave all of this evidence away. Go ahead!

The lurkers can see who is posting peer-reviewed scientific evidence and who is simply denying clear and obvious reality for religious reasons.

190 posted on 03/30/2008 7:19:30 PM PDT by Coyoteman (Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.)
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To: Coyoteman; editor-surveyor
No one is hand waving away any evidence Coyote, but those skulls you post as transitionals are not skulls at all, rather they are composite constructs made up of fragments in the hundreds.

I enlarged this skull image here once, and started counting. I think I quit when I got to about 80 pieces, and that was just from that right side profile of the skull. The rear skull area definitely looks out of place. and then all of these pieces are 1.70 million years old by their best estimates.

If it was me, I would not put my PHD on such a composite construction, and evolutionists (no thats not a pejorative) have been fooled by much less many a time.

These composites may well be peer reviewed, and they call it science, but this area of science is falling away in the mainstream world because people can see these things for what they are, a projection of some mans imagination. These skulls in a way tell the story of a man's life work, and to me it is a tale of tragedy.

194 posted on 03/30/2008 7:53:02 PM PDT by valkyry1
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To: Coyoteman

lol- how manytimes you going to post that refutted chart of fully ape and fully human skull representations?

Fossil Fossil: KNM-ER 3733 has been fully refutted as being a link between our two distinct species, and NOTHING about MICROEvolution prevents ring species- it still is NOT MACROEvolution aND fully falls within the parrameters of species KINDS- How many years have you been posting outdated refuted evidences now Coyote? And how many years have the refutations been presented to you without you acknowledging htem? The lurkers notice alright- they notice the consistent ignoring of scientific facts by Macroevolutionists and notice the assumptions and imaginary scenarios that drive Macroevolution


212 posted on 03/30/2008 8:57:18 PM PDT by CottShop
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To: Coyoteman
Ring species provide unusual and valuable situations in which we can observe two species and the intermediate forms connecting them.

.... Ernst Mayr called ring species "the perfect demonstration of speciation"

I'm not quite sure how ring species prove that dogs came from non-dogs, or that mankind came from goo (via the zoo.)

All a ring species proves is that due to drift in the DNA codes, two genetic lines can become non-interbreed-able. That doesn't mean that they are a different kind of animal, however. (Now I realize some say that if it cant breed its a different species, so I use the word kind here.)

I don't know how much you know about DNA or IT, (The latter being my main field of interest) but when the internet began to expand, smart programmers figured out how to add checksums to files, so that when a file was downloaded, a calculation on all the bytes could be performed and compared against the included checksum number. If they matched, the file was probably in tact. If they didn't match, then the file got corrupted along the way.

As I said, IT, not genetics, is my familiar field of research, so I will here use IT terms and concepts to discuss DNA since I am familiar with those. (Yes, DNA contains information and interpreters.) Quite similarly to computer files, DNA also contains checksums, except they are more forgiving. When two DNA sets are joined in conception, a set of comparisons are made to make sure that not only is it the same species, but to make sure that the information isn't too far different. If a given set of DNA codes do not match close enough between the two sources, then that DNA code is disregarded and another is used instead. This is why inbreeding causes defects -- because if both parents have the same genetic defect, the comparison compares them and finds them the same, and assumes that they must be good, so then a corrupted DNA code is used, resulting in deformed offspring.

So what happens in the case of a ring species is that due to copy errors and radiation caused DNA code mangling/corruption, eventually the "Checksums" of the two non-interbreeding ends of the ring become enough different that they fail the checksum test, and can no longer interbreed. It doesn't mean that they are a different kind, they just have different checksums -- due to accumulated errors in the DNA data -- that the DNA error checking prevents conception.

So I don't see how the ring species provides any evidence as to where the species came from beforehand or what will happen with it. To believe that it proves anything beyond sure looks like a faith to me.

How does it prove that humans came from rocks (via goo and the zoo) without resorting to the false idea that "If it could be, it is be...?"

Just what does it prove without moving into the realm of faith?

Thanks,

Jesse

230 posted on 03/30/2008 10:17:29 PM PDT by mrjesse (Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen(Hbr 11:1))
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To: Coyoteman

Pasting pictures is not evidence of anything but time wasted. Keep on raving, and pasting, but your throbbing headache will never go away. Evolution is imaginary, and so are your foolish hopes.

Get aboard the reality train; the cost is only emotional, and lasts but a fleeting moment, then you’re good to go for eternity.


248 posted on 03/31/2008 10:11:09 AM PDT by editor-surveyor (Turning the general election into a second Democrat primary is not a winning strategy.)
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