Anti-evolution, pro science conservatives

WorldNetDaily ^ | 3/29/2008 | Gary Bauer and Daniel Allott

[wastedpotential]

Of all the factors that led to Mike Huckabee's demise in the 2008 presidential sweepstakes (insufficient funds, lack of foreign policy experience), there's one that has been largely overlooked: Huckabee's disbelief in the theory of evolution as it is generally understood – without the involvement of the Creator.

Perhaps you're thinking: What's evolution got to do with being president? Very little, as Huckabee was quick to remind reporters on the campaign trail. But from the moment the former Baptist minister revealed his beliefs on evolutionary biology, political commentators and scientists lambasted him. Some even suggested those beliefs should disqualify him from high office.

We believe most Americans

[CottShop]

[[For example
potassium-40 > 100,000 years
rubidium-87 > 10,000,000 years
thorium-232 > 15,000,000 years]]

I know hwat is claimed, however, all those (and every other method used for dating) has problems. What I’m asking is- how can you be certain the dates given are written in stone so to speak? You can’t- there is simply no way to test the accuracy, and infact, they have been shown to be innacurate- giving off many conflicting dates on single items being tested- It’s only when a date randomly appears that matches an a priori assumption that it is accepted.”

The Mythology of Modern Dating Methods
by
John Woodmorappe

An in-depth explanation of isotope dating (otherwise known as radiometric dating) and the reasons why million/billion year old results are not credible.

Discover:

What textbooks and newspapers won’t tell you.
Why discrepancies are common and dating methods are not “self checking.”
That there is no unequivocal support for an Earth age of 4.5 billion years.
How geologists often disagree on which dates are “good.”
Why advancements in isotopic dating have only expanded the list of rationalizations for unwelcome dates.
The steady but obvious retreat of expectations for dating methods.
How chance alone can explain most agreements between methods.
And much more!”

http://www.amazon.com/Mythology-Modern-Dating-Methods-Woodmorappe/dp/0932766579

“National Geographic hardly mentions a word about the many dubious assumptions of isotopic dating (see also Q&A: Radiometric Dating). To rectify this situation, I briefly outline here some of the many fallacies of isotopic dating[3] and discuss some recent developments in the field of age determination....

All isotopic dating methods are based on the radioactive decay of certain nuclides and the associated production of daughter isotopes. How can we be certain that radioactive decay rates have not changed in the past? The NG article assures the reader that they have been constant for all time. Actually, it was once believed that external physical processes could only alter decay rates, at most, by a few percent. Now we realize that there are physical processes capable of hugely changing radioactive decay rates of certain radioactive isotopes. In fact, stripping an atom entirely of electrons has speeded up beta decay by a factor of a billion. If we assume a different history of the early Universe, it is possible that at least the Re-Os and Lu-Hf ‘clocks’ produced billions of years worth of radiogenic isotopes in only one day. Nuclear physicists Drs. Eugene Chaffin and Russell Humphreys suggest that the nuclear decay rate was highly accelerated during Creation Week and possibly during the Flood year. They support this theoretically by applying quantum mechanics and the effect of the Universe’s expansion, and evidentially by the amount of helium still retained in minerals, and radiohalos.[4]”

http://www.trueorigin.org/natgeo_jw01.asp

[Just mythoughts]

Thanks for your replies. I think that one thing that has bothered me about Genesis is why it did not have some basic information about the nature of things that was unknown at the time. It would have been quite compelling if it had said that the earth went around the sun, or that the speed of light was 186,000 miles/second (or whatever it was in cubits), and that the speed of light is constant for all observers. Or that e=mc2. Facts all known by our Creator, and which would have won over a lot of doubters as the centuries passed.

I can appreciate the word doubt, but my doubt was not in the Creator but in flesh man's rigid requirement only they had power and authority to speak for God. When I first learned of DNA and then what DNA actually demonstrates I knew then there was NO way all of humanity could have come from only two people.

But there is really no difference in a slowed path of evolution and the 'quick like a rabbit' speed of evolution that the two sides continue to argue about.

[CottShop]

[[Thanks for your replies.

I think that one thing that has bothered me about Genesis is why it did not have some basic information about the nature of things that was unknown at the time. It would have been quite compelling if it had said that the earth went around the sun, or that the speed of light was 186,000 miles/second (or whatever it was in cubits), and that the speed of light is constant for all observers. Or that e=mc2. Facts all known by our Creator, and which would have won over a lot of doubters as the centuries passed.]]

Man had hte chance to know all that- however he (and by extension we) decided that we didn’t want that, and chose our own understanding over God’s and we ate the apple, just as God asked us not to do. The curse of sin brought on hardship and one of htose hardships was that man would always have to work his brains out to make it in this life. We valued our own understanding over God’s, and it was OUR pride that caused this- We htought hten, just as we do today, that we are more knowledgeable than God and that we can take care of ourselves and don’t need Him- just look at how intense the fight is to kick God out of the public spotlight and schools and public arenas- our pride STILL refuses to admit we need help from a Moral Agent.

[Just mythoughts]

Where exactly is it written that anybody ate an apple? That is no different a fairy tale than the we are descendants of apes.

[tokenatheist]

Who is trying to kick God out of the public spotlight?

[CottShop]

[[When I first learned of DNA and then what DNA actually demonstrates I knew then there was NO way all of humanity could have come from only two people.]]

Cain’s Wife—Who Was She?

“Many skeptics have claimed that for Cain to find a wife, there must have been other “races” of people on the earth who were not descendants of Adam and Eve. To many people, this question is a stumbling block to accepting the creation account of Genesis and its record of only one man and woman at the beginning of history. Defenders of the gospel must be able to show that all human beings are descendants of one man and one woman (Adam and Eve) because only descendants of Adam and Eve can be saved. Thus, believers need to be able to account for Cain’s wife and show clearly she was a descendant of Adam and Eve.

In order to answer this question of where Cain got his wife, we first need to cover some background information concerning the meaning of the gospel.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/nab/who-was-cains-wife

Adam lived 930 years and no doubt had many many children. In the beginning, the Dna was pure, and the offspring of close relatives were not subject to DNA degredation like we are today which would result in degraded offspring- the taboo against marrying cloe relatives was not in place when the DNA was pure

What makes you think that DNA could not have all come from two original people?

[CottShop]

[[Where exactly is it written that anybody ate an apple?]]

Genisis- it may not have been an apple per se- but it was the fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil- something that God explicitely said not to partake of- the apple is metaphorical, and infact may not have been a physical fruit at all but rather was specific indulgences in ‘knowledge’, but the point still stands- WE through Adam partook of this fruit against God’s will

[CottShop]

[[Who is trying to kick God out of the public spotlight?]

Lol- Gee Token- noone is- Atheists are just fine with God in public, in office, in the streets, on public property etc- the news isn’t chock full of people getting arrested for publicly declaring hteir faith, noone is trying to kick God out of politics altogether- it’s all made up- we’re all imagining it- now run along!

[CottShop]

[[3. Disbelieving in evolution requires not acckepting the evidence provided by the sciences I mentioned.]]

Nope- disbelieving evolution simply requires objective annalysis- and not falling for the myriad assumptiuons of scientists who go into sciences with a priori beliefs that are unsupported by factual science.

[[3. Disbelieving in evolution requires not acckepting the evidence provided by the sciences I mentioned.

4. Plenty of Christians understand that evolution does not contradict the Bible. T]]

Yup- many have been deceived and don’t take the time to check the actual facts out- but I hope you’re not making a case for an unsupported hypothesis based solely on numbers of deceived people?

[tokenatheist]

I have no problem with God in public, I just do not wish my tax dollars to support a specific interpretation of what God is.

Can you provide a few links to stories about people getting arrested for publicly declaring their faith?

[onguard]

As far as kicking God out of the public schools and arenas, I assume you are referring to public prayers. I would ask you to remember the admonition in Matthews that God does not believe in public prayer, that he knows everyone’s thoughts anyway, but that if one must pray, pray privately where no one can see you, not in public view like the hypocrites.

[CottShop]

[[False. Science works on the assumption of naturalism, that is, it works with what can be observed.]]

BS- Macroevolutionary science works PURELY on assumptions and dogmatic beliefs!

[[Ideally it works by repeatable experiment, but in many fields that is not possible. But by following the scientific method it manages to do pretty well.]]

Yup- it does pretty well IF you’re willing to IGNORE the fact that Macroeovlution is a biological impossibility- IF you’re willing to IGNORE all the refuting science- IF you’re willing to jump to conclusions and make wild leaps of reason trying to connect species that are biologically entirely different in order to make hte case for Macroevolution. But alas- this is your ‘science’ you hold in such esteeme while belittling and maligning the opposition.

[[Scientists who abandon the scientific method for religious dogma and belief are no longer doing science.]]

You are so fulkl of crap- you sit htere prtetending your ‘science’ isn’t a faith based science and you pretend the serious problem of biological impossibility doesn’t exist, and you pretend Macroevolution is strictly science- but hte fact is coyote- it is EVERY BIT as much a faith as Creationism is- infact it is MORE a faith and religious belief than Creationism/ID because ID studies empiracle evidences and points to a logical plausibility not some fairy tale biologically impossible imaginary scenario.

ID isn’t a ‘fundamental belief’ it’s a logical annalysis of hte empiracvle evidence- period! It makes NO claims about who or even hwat the intelligence is- it simply forensically and scientifically determines that nature is incapable of producing IC and that is fact- that is not a belief. Biology confirms this- if you can dispute htis- then do so- but don’t sit there and pretend Macroevolution isn’t a religious belief because doing so just exposes the fact that you’re nothing but a pot calling hte kettle black

[CottShop]

it is much more than just public prayers- and no- you are mistaken- God’s admonition isn’t just for private prayers- the apostles all prayed in public- the admonition was against falsely praying in public as the false ‘religious leaders’ did- to be seen and held in high esteeme was their only goals- Early ‘church services’ were not held in buildings for htem ost part but in public- I think you need a better founding in the bible sir

[Just mythoughts]

Cain’s Wife—Who Was She?

Cain left the area and went 'East' into the land of 'Nod' and found a wife there. Now in Genesis 4:14 Cain says .."Behold, Thou (the Lord) has driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from Thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that *EVERY ONE* that findeth me shall slay me." Now there had to be people already in the land of Nod not of the Adam and Eve for Cain to have found a wife.

“Many skeptics have claimed that for Cain to find a wife, there must have been other “races” of people on the earth who were not descendants of Adam and Eve. To many people, this question is a stumbling block to accepting the creation account of Genesis and its record of only one man and woman at the beginning of history. Defenders of the gospel must be able to show that all human beings are descendants of one man and one woman (Adam and Eve) because only descendants of Adam and Eve can be saved. Thus, believers need to be able to account for Cain’s wife and show clearly she was a descendant of Adam and Eve. In order to answer this question of where Cain got his wife, we first need to cover some background information concerning the meaning of the gospel.

Genesis 1:26 says this the sixth day was the first creation of 'man'/'woman' in flesh.... God said His creation was gooood. It is NOT a mutation or fluke or deterioration of the DNA to see the many peoples of the globe. God says that ALLLL souls belong to him and that means alllll of us no matter what race we come in this flesh age.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/nab/who-was-cains-wife Adam lived 930 years and no doubt had many many children. In the beginning, the Dna was pure, and the offspring of close relatives were not subject to DNA degredation like we are today which would result in degraded offspring- the taboo against marrying cloe relatives was not in place when the DNA was pure

This is an ugly accusation against the Heavenly father that his children's skin colors are result of DNA degradations.

[NewLand]

The important thing is that the president toe the evo line.

mm...aren't we all supposed to "toe" that line, without questioning? Isn't all the evidence already in?

The global warming must be getting to me... :-O

[jude24]

your over educated state of mind.

Anytime I hear this, I know the speaker has no formal scientific education and need no longer listen to him, since he's speaking out of ignorance.

I'm a Bible-believing Christian with a B/S in Chemistry and a doctorate in law. But I'm not a six-day creationist. That interpretation of Genesis is a creature of the fundamentalist movements of the 19th century, NOT of the historical Church.

[Huber]

I was always more concerned with Huckabee’s view on transubstantiation. </sarcasm>. In all seriousness, while young earthers may be misinterpreting Genesis, and in any case, the potential for some degree of evolution is perfectly consistent with a belief in scriptural inerrancy, these theological perspectives are nuances from the perspective of the ability to govern as President. Huckabee’s flaws were on the economic and cultural sides, with a belief in big government, and a superficial social conservatism which while rightly emphasizing family, life and marriage, underestimates the importance of Western tradition in our civilization.

[onguard]

“...and no- you are mistaken...the admonition was against falsely praying in public as the false ‘religious leaders’ did...I think you need a better founding in the bible sir.”

I appreciate that I could know more about the Bible, but it could hardly be more clearly stated:

Gospel of Matthew chapter 6, verses 5-6,:

“When thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.”

[RussP]

“Coyoteman, did I do that right? It looks like I just rendered obsolete the entire field of Creationism, and that’s not something I’d do lightly. And I haven’t done any research design since the halcyon school days.”

You are obviously unaware of “old-earth creationism.” I suggest you take a look at Hugh Ross’s “Reasons To Believe” website at http://www.reasons.org

Hugh Ross is a PhD astronomer who has studied the Bible and other holy books and come to the conclusion that the Bible and no other holy book is completely consistent with what we know now about the universe and its origin. But he says that the whole issue of six literal 24-hour days is really just a mistranslation of the original Hebrew text.

Ross has identified literally dozens and dozens of physical constants and parameters that had to be “just right” for life as we know it to exist. If some of those constants varied by even a tiny fraction of one percent, stars and planets would have never formed, for example.

[Coyoteman]

This is an ugly accusation against the Heavenly father that his children's skin colors are result of DNA degradations.

Right. Everyone knows that they are the result of DNA improvements -- that is, improvements (adaptations) to better cope with new local environments or changing environments.