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Marsupial lion tops African lion in fight to death
University of New South Wales ^ | 16-Jan-2008 | Stephen Wroe

Posted on 01/17/2008 9:35:14 AM PST by Pharmboy

Pound for pound, Australia’s extinct marsupial lion (Thylacoleo carnifex) would have made mince meat of today’s African lion (Panthera leo) had the two big hyper-carnivores ever squared off in a fight to the death, according to an Australian scientist.

New research published in the Journal of Zoology suggests that Thylacoleo killed prey rapidly, using its “bolt-cutter” type teeth to scissor through hide and flesh to produce major trauma and blood loss.

By contrast, African lions and similar big cats of today use their bite force to suffocate prey, using a “clamp and hold” technique that can take up to 15 minutes with large prey such as Cape buffalo.

“My results suggest that the marsupial lion employed a unique killing technique,” says research author Stephen Wroe. “It used its massive carnassial cheekteeth to effect major trauma and a rapid kill. Unlike any living mammalian carnivores, the marsupial’s carnassials were not only butchery tools but also active components in the killing process.”

Using a sophisticated computer modelling method [finite element (FE) analysis], that renders dynamic 3D models based on CT scans of the marsupial’s cranial mechanics and musculoskeletal architecture, Wroe has revealed that the creature’s skull, jaw, and head and neck muscles were well adapted to using the unique technique for killing large prey, but not for delivering the prolonged suffocating bite of living big cats.

“The marsupial lion also had an extremely efficient bite,” Wroe says. “In addition to very powerful jaw muscles for its size, its muscle and skull architecture were arranged in such a way as to take greater advantage of leverage than in living cats.”

Wroe, who has published findings about bite force in other hypercarnivores, such as great white sharks and sabre tooth tigers, believes there is now no doubt that Australia’s marsupial lion was a fearsome predator that punched well above its weight.

“Certainly, T carnifex was seriously over-engineered for dispatching small prey. These new findings support the conclusion that the creature regularly preyed on relatively large species and was able to effect quick kills and withstand large forces generated by large struggling prey.

“Hypothetically, had a large marsupial lion ever come face to face with an African lion of similar size, it could have use its deadly cheek teeth and incredibly powerful arms to inflict mortal wounds on the mammal,” Wroe says. “Had it not become extinct, it might now hold top spot over toady’s ‘king of the jungle.’”

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TOPICS: Pets/Animals
KEYWORDS: hypercarnivores; minesbiggerthanyours
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Here's what one looked like:


1 posted on 01/17/2008 9:35:15 AM PST by Pharmboy
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To: Pharmboy

Betcha it couldn’t beat Superman, though.


2 posted on 01/17/2008 9:37:12 AM PST by martin_fierro (Batman? Probably.)
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To: thefactor; martin_fierro; blam; SunkenCiv; Clemenza

Nature-red-in-tooth-and-claw ping...


3 posted on 01/17/2008 9:37:38 AM PST by Pharmboy (Democrats lie because they must.)
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To: martin_fierro

HA! I had you pinged as you were replying...unfrickinbelievable!


4 posted on 01/17/2008 9:38:25 AM PST by Pharmboy (Democrats lie because they must.)
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To: Pharmboy

I wonder if I could get fit out with a set of toofs like that? Be great on beef jerky...BTT...


5 posted on 01/17/2008 9:39:28 AM PST by Billthedrill
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To: Pharmboy

Heeere kitty, kitty.


6 posted on 01/17/2008 9:41:06 AM PST by 353FMG (Vote for the Person who will do the least damage to our country.)
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To: Pharmboy

One day I googled on this whole what is the most fearsome predator thing - and it is amazing all of the websites on the subject. Apparently, the grizzly bear is tops.


7 posted on 01/17/2008 9:41:12 AM PST by vbmoneyspender
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To: Pharmboy
“Had it not become extinct, it might now hold top spot over toady’s ‘king of the jungle.’”

In other words, had it not been unsuccessful, it would have been more successful than the African lion, which continues to be successful.

8 posted on 01/17/2008 9:43:05 AM PST by ClearCase_guy (The broken wall, the burning roof and tower. And Agamemnon dead.)
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To: Pharmboy
Well, maybe. I did my PhD dissertation using finite element analysis, and I can tell you, it can give erroneous results if you don’t set the problem up properly.

Garbage in; garbage out.

Still, if it was using this technique, wouldn’t the animal still have to bleed out? This takes time. And wouldn’t it depend on which animal got the death-bite first?

I’m just asking. I’ve got no “cat” in this fight.

9 posted on 01/17/2008 9:55:13 AM PST by chesley (Where's the omelet? -- Orwell)
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To: ClearCase_guy
In other words, had it not been unsuccessful, it would have been more successful than the African lion, which continues to be successful.

Exactly!!

Knowledge and fighting experience are more valuable than strength alone. Ask all the "big guys" that Bruce Lee beat up!

10 posted on 01/17/2008 10:00:08 AM PST by DWar (The perfect is the enemy of the excellent!!)
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To: chesley
I had a similar thought to your "bleed out" comment. Perhaps this is the way it breaks down: for a wildebeest, the African lion needs to catch and get its jaws clamped on its neck; but for a face-to-face, P. leo would not be able to do that against a strong predator. So, straight-up, the marsupial wins with stronger musculature and better weapons.

And BTW, great tagline. Needed to think for about 1.5 seconds before it hit.

11 posted on 01/17/2008 10:02:07 AM PST by Pharmboy (Democrats lie because they must.)
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To: ClearCase_guy

Yes—that last line struck me as funny, and I wondered whether the writer appreciated the irony in it. Also, it would have been nice if they offered some explanation(s) as to why the kitty went toes up species-wise.


12 posted on 01/17/2008 10:04:34 AM PST by Pharmboy (Democrats lie because they must.)
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To: vbmoneyspender
Polar Bears confronting a much larger predator:

Image and video hosting by TinyPic

13 posted on 01/17/2008 10:13:47 AM PST by Sax
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To: Pharmboy; pcottraux; blam; Fred Nerks

Thanks Pharmboy.


14 posted on 01/17/2008 10:23:58 AM PST by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/__________________Profile updated Wednesday, January 16, 2008)
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To: Pharmboy
"Pound for pound ..."

I always have a problem with this comparison. It does not say how big or what this thing might have weighed. So if it weighed in at 3 pounds and you shrunk a lion of today down to its size ... then and only then would the Marsupial lion win?

They make the same comparison with ants.

15 posted on 01/17/2008 10:26:22 AM PST by Red_Devil 232 (VietVet - USMC All Ready On The Right? All Ready On The Left? All Ready On The Firing Line!)
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To: SunkenCiv; Angelas; presidio9; Idisarthur; Hegemony Cricket; A knight without armor; new cruelty; ..
Can't win 'em all.


16 posted on 01/17/2008 11:00:24 AM PST by pcottraux (Fred Thompson pronounces it "P. Coe-Troe"...in 2008.)
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To: Pharmboy

So, carnassials are the kind of molars that meat-eaters have—dogs, cats, for instance? Bears have grinding molars in back so that they are more omnivores by nature...just wondering, since my mastiff’s carnassials are the scariest teeth I’ve ever seen...:D


17 posted on 01/17/2008 11:12:05 AM PST by Judith Anne (I have no idea what to put here. Not a clue.)
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To: Judith Anne
Well, I'm certainly no tooth expert, but my knowledge from human evolution on teeth may be helpful. To wit, earlier forms of Homo and the Austalopithecines had (relatively) enormous molars compared to more modern Homo sapiens. This happened as meat became more prominent in our diet. Dogs are omnivores as are bears, so those big teeth in your dog reflect more plant-based diet than meat. I believe the size and shape of the beast of this thread were different.
18 posted on 01/17/2008 11:32:47 AM PST by Pharmboy (Democrats lie because they must.)
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To: Pharmboy

Although dogs can survive on an omnivorous diet, they are meat eaters as far as I know. They have no flat grinding molars, which is what I thought was the defining trait.

No arguing here, just that I thought that “dentition determines diet.”


19 posted on 01/17/2008 11:40:07 AM PST by Judith Anne (I have no idea what to put here. Not a clue.)
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To: Pharmboy

PS, Carnassials are the big sharp scissors teeth, as opposed to the flat grinding molars.


20 posted on 01/17/2008 11:41:24 AM PST by Judith Anne (I have no idea what to put here. Not a clue.)
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