This exchange has been both encouraging and discouraging at the same time. One thing on the plus side is that it’s nice to see the candor. It’s nice to see people willing to honestly share their opinions.
It’s encouraging to see that a guy finds himself attracted to women “in his league” which is nice to hear for all the women who are not beauty queens.
It’s discouraging to realize that looks seem to override all other factors for a guy to find a woman attractive. It’s also discouraging to hear you say that someone is “out of your league.” I think that beautiful women often feel that their beauty puts them out of reach and they actually don’t get approached as much as more average looking women.
At the risk of sounding arrogant, I rarely regard a man as “out of my league,” in terms of being “too good for me.” I do regard myself as being “too good” for a lot of men. This is not at all based on looks, but based on the fact that I am nice, intelligent, and accomplished. Being “not nice” is the number one turnoff for me in a man and if he is not nice then I am too good for him. I put honesty high in the list of factors that are a part of being nice.
I get “hit on” a lot by the mentally challenged. I think this is because I am nice to them, which a lot of people aren’t. For example, the guy at the grocery store who collects the shopping carts - Instead of acting as though he does not exist, I talk to him. I wish more people would. But there is no way that I would ever have a relationship with him. I guess in spite of his being nice, I would say I am out of his league. It makes me feel mean to say that! I do need some intellectual compatibility.
When I was in my 20’s, I think I would have considered exceptionally well-connected guys from rich families who were very smooth and socially adept to be out of my league. I don’t know if I would find that intimidating any more, partly because I am more socially adept and I have more self-confidence at this point in my life. I might be intimidated by a movie star or celebrity, but I’m not sure. A lot would depend on the circumstances in which I met him.
One more thing I’d say to the guys who are focused on looks (all of you?) is that a lot of average looking women can look pretty spectacular if they are dressed up, wearing makeup, and have their hair done. If you meet them at the hardware store wearing sweat pants with paint in their hair, they aren’t at their best! Some of the women that you think are very good looking have spent hours (and a lot of money) getting that way. How good do you think they will look after they’ve spent an hour helping you weed your garden, change your oil, paint your house? Some babes are down to earth, but some would not even stoop to those activities and you might quickly tire of a relationship where it took the woman 2 hours to get ready to leave the house and she would never participate in any activity that might mess up her hair. High maintenance can grow old real fast.
So, one point I’d make is that some women dress to kill just to go to a ballgame or McDonald’s. Others (myself included) only dress up if it seems warranted - a fancy restaurant, the office Christmas party, starring in a movie, .... We’ll probably dress up for you to meet your family or friends if you ask us, or if you have some other reason that it’s important.
http://arcadevoid.com/games/files/Celebrities_without_Makeup.jpg
*chuckle* I agree with your concept.......to a point. I spend extra time on my looks......and always have. Just habit I guess.
For one....I would never go to the store without my hair combed and at least some mascara and lipstick on. I also don't go anywhere in public without having on clean, neat clothing. I was raised in a median to low-income family that placed great value on manners, good grooming and education.
My little German grandmother pound into us kids...."you may be poor.....but you can always afford soap and water". She would come over every week to help my (working) mother clean house, wash, line dry...then press our clothing. It made a huge impression on me.
I wince when I see young women who walk around slobbed out with nasty, soiled clothes on, scraggly hair and dragging 3 bed-raggled kids behind them that still have yesterday's lunch on their faces. It may take her an hour to get herself and the kids ready to go out.....but believe me when I say her spouse and the rest of America would have appreciated it. :)
First, anyone who collects enough paparazzi pictures of celebrities can find an occasional shot of an attractive woman looking unattractive. That collage of photographs is contrived to try to produce an effect. I don't believe that effect is real. I've seen women of all levels of attractiveness on a daily basis at work or school throughout my career. I've seen that even the best of them can have a bad day and even the worst of them can have a good day. I've seen them as they come inside after having worked for a couple of hours in 90 degree heat. I've seen them after pulling an all-nighter and spending two hours in a boring lab class. If they are caught at the wrong moment in a picture, the prettiest of them can look horrible, but overall, the attractive women are still attractive.
I've never met a professional or world-renowned beauty. I don't know whether those women would really seem more attractive in real life than many of the women that I see in the stores in my own home town. I tend to doubt that I would notice many of them if they passed me on the street any more than I would notice the other attractive women passing me on the street. However, knowing that Brooke Burke isn't really any prettier in real life than many other women I see on the street is little consolation if all of them are still "out of my league" by several levels.
I also don't put much emphasis on whether a woman is "dressed up." I remember helping at a refinery in Bakersfield during a turnaround and seeing a young lady who was the safety watch outside several pieces of equipment that I needed to enter. She was wearing loose, flame-retardant coveralls. She had an air horn in one pocket and a radio in another pocket. She was wearing steel-toed boots and a hard hat. Wearing all of this stuff and standing in the sun all day did not allow her to wear much makeup. She still looked great. If I stood at a corner on a college campus and watched people walk past me all day, I probably wouldn't pick her out as being exceptional, but she looked just fine even under less than optimal conditions.
I'm not saying that looks are everything, the only thing, or even the most important thing. However, you mentioned that looks equals power for women, and I think there is a great deal of truth to what you've said.
Part of why I opened this discussion is that I struggle with the idea of someone being not in someone else's "league." I don't really believe in this relationship caste system, but I admit that maybe I just don't want to believe this system exists. Maybe I'm just worried that I'm in such a low caste that I'll never find someone that I'll like. I ask these questions because I want to better understand the whole idea.
I met a woman about four years ago who is an example. She works with her brother and parents in a family business. She lived one or two different places as child, but has lived in the same town for her entire adult life. She worked somewhere else for a few years after high school and may have taken a few college classes. Except for maybe one or two trips to the beach, she's lived her entire adult life within a hundred or two hundred mile radius. I've worked for a few major corporations. I have three engineering degrees from two major and one mid-sized university. I've lived in seven states as an adult and traveled to about forty states. I worried that the difference in our life experiences would be too much to bridge, but I really didn't see myself as being out of her league. She wasn't beautiful by any means, but she had a pleasant appearance. I don't think most people would say that her appearance would bridge any gap, but she seemed to be a nice, gentle, reasonable person. I felt that those qualities would bridge any gap. I never had a chance to explore this idea because she never gave me a second date. We had very different experiences in life, but I didn't see us as being in different leagues.
I don't think it's arrogant for you to consider yourself "too good" for many men. Many men are trash, and they don't deserve a relationship with any woman. Furthermore, I don't see men who are trash and women who are trash as being "in the same league." I don't think either group deserves a league. When trashy men and trashy women get together, they still cause problems and hurt themselves and others in a way that damages our society.
Bill
