[WFTR]

Very accurately, in fact. Speaking from my own personal experience, I find that I've even gotten to the point that I am no longer even attracted to what I'd call 'very beautiful' women because they're out of my league. I tend to only have interest in those that I feel like I have at least some realistic chance of having a relationship with.

I have a couple of awkward questions, but they relate to the point that you raised. If you don't feel like answering them, feel free to say so. Do you think that your feelings for a woman "in your league" would be as strong as the feelings that you'd have for a woman who was "out of your league" if you could attract one of these women? If you found a woman "in your league" and she asked you whether you honestly found her as desirable as you would find one of these "out of your league" women, what would you say and what would the honest answer really be?

Thanks,

Bill

[generally]

This exchange has been both encouraging and discouraging at the same time. One thing on the plus side is that it’s nice to see the candor. It’s nice to see people willing to honestly share their opinions.

It’s encouraging to see that a guy finds himself attracted to women “in his league” which is nice to hear for all the women who are not beauty queens.

It’s discouraging to realize that looks seem to override all other factors for a guy to find a woman attractive. It’s also discouraging to hear you say that someone is “out of your league.” I think that beautiful women often feel that their beauty puts them out of reach and they actually don’t get approached as much as more average looking women.

At the risk of sounding arrogant, I rarely regard a man as “out of my league,” in terms of being “too good for me.” I do regard myself as being “too good” for a lot of men. This is not at all based on looks, but based on the fact that I am nice, intelligent, and accomplished. Being “not nice” is the number one turnoff for me in a man and if he is not nice then I am too good for him. I put honesty high in the list of factors that are a part of being nice.

I get “hit on” a lot by the mentally challenged. I think this is because I am nice to them, which a lot of people aren’t. For example, the guy at the grocery store who collects the shopping carts - Instead of acting as though he does not exist, I talk to him. I wish more people would. But there is no way that I would ever have a relationship with him. I guess in spite of his being nice, I would say I am out of his league. It makes me feel mean to say that! I do need some intellectual compatibility.

When I was in my 20’s, I think I would have considered exceptionally well-connected guys from rich families who were very smooth and socially adept to be out of my league. I don’t know if I would find that intimidating any more, partly because I am more socially adept and I have more self-confidence at this point in my life. I might be intimidated by a movie star or celebrity, but I’m not sure. A lot would depend on the circumstances in which I met him.

One more thing I’d say to the guys who are focused on looks (all of you?) is that a lot of average looking women can look pretty spectacular if they are dressed up, wearing makeup, and have their hair done. If you meet them at the hardware store wearing sweat pants with paint in their hair, they aren’t at their best! Some of the women that you think are very good looking have spent hours (and a lot of money) getting that way. How good do you think they will look after they’ve spent an hour helping you weed your garden, change your oil, paint your house? Some babes are down to earth, but some would not even stoop to those activities and you might quickly tire of a relationship where it took the woman 2 hours to get ready to leave the house and she would never participate in any activity that might mess up her hair. High maintenance can grow old real fast.

So, one point I’d make is that some women dress to kill just to go to a ballgame or McDonald’s. Others (myself included) only dress up if it seems warranted - a fancy restaurant, the office Christmas party, starring in a movie, .... We’ll probably dress up for you to meet your family or friends if you ask us, or if you have some other reason that it’s important.

http://arcadevoid.com/games/files/Celebrities_without_Makeup.jpg

[JamesP81]

Do you think that your feelings for a woman "in your league" would be as strong as the feelings that you'd have for a woman who was "out of your league" if you could attract one of these women?

Yes. The reasoning for this is multi-faceted and complicated. First of all, even with men, love is not entirely about physical desire. Frequently that physical attraction is what brings people together, but even men need something more than what their biology provides.

I simply can't imagine that a woman 'out of my league' would ever want to be with me, and nothing is more miserable than being in a relationship with someone who really wants out. As for the woman in my league, I still find her attractive. More so in some ways than the ones out of my league because I might actually have a chance with her. I also appreciate the emotional risk a woman in her position has to subject herself to. In order for her to trust me and commit to a relationship, she has to drop a lot of her guard. She places herself at enormous emotional risk and makes herself very vulnerable to being hurt in order to further a relationship. And I respect that. More than I can put into words. And when a lady friend is willing to go to that length, even if she's only slightly attractive to me, the whole physical aspect suddenly doesn't mean as much. A woman like that is one I want to keep forever.

Secondly, and on a more mundane note, a great many of the 'women out of my league' adopt a fashion style that is extremely unoriginal. As part of my own personality traits, I value individuality and uniqueness. Blond haired, blue eyed, and slender has been overdone to the point of being cliche. It's very ubiquitosness prevents such a look from even catching my eye.

If you found a woman "in your league" and she asked you whether you honestly found her as desirable as you would find one of these "out of your league" women, what would you say and what would the honest answer really be?

The answer would be yes and it would be the truth, for the reasons listed above.

Now, it isn't all roses and lovey dovey. I think it is necessary for a man to feel some level of physical attraction to his mate. Absolutely necessary. It doesn't have to be much. Being with a lady that you feel even some physical attraction for avoids a great many problems that some of us are simply unable to overcome. Not every problem should be taken head on; some are best avoided.

That was a long, discombobulated rant. I swear, it all makes sense in my own mind, but it's not easy to put it into words. It's not the sort of thing that conforms to any hard and fast rules, so it's hard for me to give it to you in outline format.