The Itinerary of Benjamin of Tudela:
Travels in the Middle Ages
by Benjamin of Tudela
Posted on 06/12/2006 9:24:09 AM PDT by SunkenCiv
The hypothesis that Jesus Christ is buried in central Srinagar, the summer capital of Indian-administered Kashmir, has aroused a lot of interest among historiographers, researchers, scholars, archaeologists and religious groups both in India and worldwide once again. A team of German researchers, including two archaeologists, is planning to visit Srinagar later this year to investigate the subject.
Within India, the political party known as the Janata Party has set up a group of experts from among its members which would be coming to Kashmir's summer capital soon to start research work. The party's president, Dr Subramanian Swamy, who was in Srinagar last week, said that after reading a booklet by a German he has a "feeling of curiosity" about Jesus Christ and Moses having visited Kashmir and in the belief that both had died and are buried in the Valley.
Muslims in Kashmir and elsewhere revere both Jesus and Moses as "noble prophets" of "Bani Israel" (Children of Israel), as the Koran makes a number of references to them. Swamy also pointed to the belief of many Kashmiris that they were one of the "Lost Tribes" of Israel.
"It is a matter of great interest that Prophet Moses is buried in Kashmir and that Jesus too had visited the Valley, went to Ladakh to visit the Hemis monastery where he took Buddhism as his faith, returned home but left it again for Kashmir to escape persecution, and died here in Srinagar," he said. The Janata Party leader said that the team he has set up would do methodical research on the subject and come out with its findings "which everybody in the country would be interested in."
(Excerpt) Read more at adnki.com ...
Reconversions are on a rage too! That's what happens when one party offers a bag of rice and some monies to the desperately poor to "convert" to faith X, Y or Z. From X to Y, and Y to Z, and back to X, if each step promises them goodies.
I suspect that the Indian government has a lot at stake here. If they can discredit Jesus and Moses all at once, they can keep a nice, tidy underclass ready to do all the jobs that Indians won't do.
I assume you don't follow Indian politics that well. India is a democracy, and the parties that represent the said people rule!
Look at the lines in colour:
Arjuna:
Of those who love you as the Lord of Love,
Ever present in all, and those who seek you
As the nameless, formless Reality,
Which way is sure and swift, love or knowledge?
Krishna:
For those who set their hearts on me
And worship me with unfailing devotion and faith,
The way of love leads sure and swift to me.
Those who seek the transcendental Reality,
Unmanifested, without name or form,
Beyond the reach of feeling and of thought,
With their senses subdued and mind serene
And striving for the good of all beings,
They too will verily come unto me.
Yet hazardous
And slow is the path to the Unrevealed,
Difficult for physical man to tread.
But they for whom I am the goal supreme,
Who do all work renouncing self for me
And meditate on me with single-hearted devotion,
These will I swiftly rescue
From the fragment's cycle of birth and death
To fullness of eternal life in me.
Still your mind in me, still yourself in me,
And without doubt you shall be united with me,
Lord of Love, dwelling in your heart.
But if you cannot still your mind in me,
Learn to do so through the practice of meditation.
If you lack the will for such self-discipline,
Engage yourself in selfless service of all around you,
For selfless service can lead you at last to me.
If you are unable to do even this,
Surrender yourself to me in love,
Receiving success and failure with equal calmness
As granted by me.
Better indeed is knowledge than mechanical practice.
Better than knowledge is meditation.
But better still is surrender in love,
Because there follows immediate peace.
That one I love who is incapable of ill will,
And returns love for hatred.
Living beyond the reach of I and mine
And of pleasure and pain, full of mercy,
Contented, self-controlled, firm in faith,
With all their heart and all their mind given to me –
With such people I am in love.
Not agitating the world or by it agitated,
They stand above the sway of elation,
Competition, and fear, accepting life
Good and bad as it comes. They are pure,
Efficient, detached, ready to meet every demand
I make on them as a humble instrument of my work.
They are dear to me who run not after the pleasant
Or away from the painful, grieve not
Over the past, lust not today,
But let things come and go as they happen.
Who serve both friend and foe with equal love,
Not buoyed up by praise or cast down by blame,
Alike in heat and cold, pleasure and pain,
Free from selfish attachments and self-will,
Ever full, in harmony everywhere,
Firm in faith – such as these are dear to me.
But dearest to me are those who seek me
In faith and love as life's eternal goal.
They go beyond death to immortality.
Krishna:
Those who are free from selfish attachments,
Who have mastered the senses and passions,
Act not, but are acted through by the Lord.
Listen to me now, O son of Kunti,
How one who has become an instrument
In the hands of the Lord attains the Absolute,
The supreme consummation of wisdom.
Unerring in discrimination,
Sovereign of the senses and passions,
Free from the clamor of likes and dislikes,
They lead a simple, self–reliant life
Based on meditation, using speech,
Body, and mind to serve the Lord of Love.
Free from self–will, aggressiveness, arrogance,
From the lust to possess people or things,
They are at peace with themselves and others
And enter into the unitive state.
United with the Lord, ever joyful,
Beyond the reach of self–will and sorrow,
They serve me in every living creature
And attain supreme devotion to me.
By loving me they share in my glory
And enter into my boundless being.
All their acts are performed in my service,
And through my grace they win eternal life.
Make every act an offering to me;
Regard me as your only protector.
Make every thought an offering to me;
Meditate on me always.
Drawing upon your deepest resources,
You shall overcome all difficulties
Through my grace. But if you will not heed me
In your self–will, nothing will avail you.
If you say, “I will not fight this battle,”
Your own nature will drive you into it.
If you will not fight the battle of life,
Your own karma will drive you into it.
The Lord dwells in the hearts of all creatures,
And he whirls them round on the wheel of time.
Run to him for refuge with all your strength
And peace profound will be yours through his grace.
I give you these precious words of wisdom;
Reflect on them and then choose what is best.
These are the last words I shall speak to you,
Dear one, for your spiritual fulfillment.
Be aware of me always, adore me,
Make every act an offering to me,
And you shall come to me;
This I promise, for you are dear to me.
Leave all other support, and look to me
For protection. I shall purify you
From the sins of the past. Do not grieve.
Do not share this wisdom with anyone
Who lacks in devotion or self–control,
Lacks the desire to learn, or who scoffs at me.
Those who teach this supreme mystery
Of the Gita to all those who love me
Will come to me without doubt. No one
Can render me more devoted service;
No one on earth can be more dear to me.
Those who meditate on these holy words
Worship me with wisdom and devotion.
Even those who listen to them with faith,
Free from doubts, will find a happier world.
Have you fully understood my message?
Are you free from your doubts and delusions?
Arjuna:
You have dispelled my doubts and delusions
And made me ready to fight this battle.
My faith is firm now, and I will do your will.
Krishna:
I am the same to all beings. My love
Is the same always. Nevertheless, those
Who meditate on me with devotion,
They dwell in me, and I shine forth in them.
Even the worst sinner becomes a saint
When he loves me with all his heart. This love
Will soon transform his personality
And fill his heart with peace profound.
O son of Kunti, this is my promise:
Those who love me, they shall never perish.
-Excerpts from the Bhagawad Gita (The Song of the Lord).
Of course, if Jesus' tomb is in India, then those never happened, either. ;-)
Circular reasoning. Noun. See also, Reasoning, circular.
Cheers!
Many of Jesus' teachings have an uncanny resemblance to various Eastern philosophies.
Jesus' crucifixion was not his teachings. That was what he endured, not taught.
I repeat, look at the 'highlighted' lines in what I pasted earlier, and compare those to Jesus' teachings. And then get back.
Matthew 12:40 -- "For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."
Matthew 20:17-21 -- Now as Jesus was going up to Jerusalem, he took the twelve disciples aside and said to them,"We are going up to Jerusalem, and the Son of Man will be betrayed to the chief priests and the teachers of the law. They will condemn him to death and will turn him over to the Gentiles to be mocked and flogged and crucified. On the third day he will be raised to life!"
Matthew 20:28 -- "...just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life as a ransom for many."
Matthew 26:31 -- Then Jesus told them, "This very night you will all fall away on account of me, for it is written,'I will strike the shepherd and the sheep of the flock will be scattered.' But after I have risen, I will to ahead of you into Galilee."
Mark 8:31 -- He than began to teach them that the Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders, chief priests and teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and after three days rise again. He spoke plainly about this, and Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him.
Mark 14:22-25 -- While they were eating, Jesus took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to his disciples, saying,"Take it; this is my body." Then he took the cup, gave thanks and offered it to them, and they all drank from it. "This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many," he said to them. "I tell you the truth, I wil not drink again of the fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it anew in the kingdom of God."
Luke 22:37 -- "It is written: 'And he was numbered with the transgressors'; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment."
John 6: 51-54: "I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If a man eats of this bread, he will live forever. This bread is my flesh, whch I will give for the life of the world." Then the Jews began to argue sharply among themselves, "How can this man give us his flesh to eat?" Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink of His blood, you have no life in you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink."
John 12: 32-33 --"But I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself." He said this to show the kind of death he was going to die.
All the teachings of Christ. He used them to instruct his disciples, as to why He showed up in the first place.
And it is precisely in Jesus' teachings about them that Christianity differs from Eastern philosophies.
They are not "incidental" but central to Christianity.
And I see nothing in what you have posted which corresponds to them.
Cheers!
Call me a "doubting Thomas" on that one.
Its just amazing how so many Christians so passionately and zealously believe their own propagandist baloney about success of "conversion" in India. Almost institutionalised in their belief structure.
Its ravingly hilarious.
Ever heard of the Silk route and ancient India trading with Rome and Greece?
Buried?
I think he got up and left.
You mean Christians believe in reincarnation just like the Hindus? Krishna said he would be comming back too.
I wonder where Christians got the idea of "second comming of Christ" from.
Sathya Sai Baba claims to be Krishna returned, doesn't he?
No. Did it make a pit stop in Galilee? :-)
If Jesus died in India, why hasn't someone written a best-seller about it yet? "Sophisticated" anti-Christian screeds pop up every few years; this idea seems to have missed its turn between The Passover Plot and The DaVinci Code.
Cheers!
The Itinerary of Benjamin of Tudela:
Travels in the Middle Ages
by Benjamin of Tudela
Lol!
Sathya Sai! What is his percentage of followers? Rationalists have repeatedly proved him hoax, in India itself. The only good for which he is tolerated is his hospitals and orphanages. They have good reputation.
Besides, aren't there any god-imposters in the US?
Heh heh.
In India every other whackjob claims to be a Krishna returned.
"If Jesus died in India, why hasn't someone written a best-seller about it yet? "
I am surprised you haven't heard of any of these best sellers yet:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1852305509?v=glance
http://www.amazon.com/gp/richpub/listmania/fullview/2NFJWRZ03GUKH/103-9266288-3903839?%5Fencoding=UTF8
http://www.readme.cc/main.php/en/books_10000/books_10200/book.php?bid=1913
http://www.sol.com.au/kor/7_01.htm
http://www.salagram.net/JesusLivedInIndia.html
http://www.rzimindia.org/html/Reviews/R008.html
And mind you, these are "non-fiction" unlike The Da Vinci Code.
"Did it make a pit stop in Galilee? :-)"
You will be surprised to know the distances people covered to carry out trade. BTW according to some theories mass migration of Aryans from Europe to India took place thousands of years before the birth of Christ. Israel by comparison is far closer.
Thanks for a good laugh, they all derive from Kersten's work.
BTW, yes, I am quite aware of the long distances involved in trade during antiquity. I once had a girlfriend (classical civilizations major) lecture me on insurance fraud in ancient Athens. ;-)
But you still didn't answer whether the trade routes passed through Galilee...
In order to make the claim that "Christianity and Eastern religion are much alike", you find it necessary to throw out 2,000 or so years of Christian teaching and thought, including (explicitly) the Death and Resurrection of Christ.
This renders your thesis -- that Christianity and Eastern philosophy are similar -- a moot point, because what you have left isn't Christianity. In fact, you have to claim that the Christians themselves are wrong about what Christianity is, and the Eastern mystics are right.
This bears a striking resemblance to the way the ID'ers and Jack Chick types treat science and evolutionary theory.
By analogy:
Q. What's the similarity between a plum and an elephant?
A. They're both purple, except for the elephant.
Cheers!
"*Snort!*
Thanks for a good laugh, they all derive from Kersten's work."
Reserve your feigned cynicism at least until you read any of the books. Only then will you know if any of them have really derived from Kirsten's work. BTW I didnt know someone who lived in 1887 could derive his work from some one who published a book in 1994.
Nicolai Notovich came to Kashmir in 1887 and Holger Kirsten first published his book in 1994. Thanks for the good laugh. Heh Heh!
BTW here are some starters:
Hindus believe that Krishna was the eighth "avatar" or incarnation of
the god Vishnu - one of the Hindu deities in the Hindu trinity. Hindu
scriptures state that Krishna "appeared in all the fullness of his
power and glory." Krishna was born sometime between 900 and 1200 B.C.
and his religious teachings can be found in the Bhagavad-Gita, one of
the sacred texts in Hinduism. The karmic similarities between Jesus and
the Hindu messiah named Krishna are many. There over one
hundred similarities between the Hindu and Christian saviors which
could easily fill a volume. Some of these similarities are apocryphal
which means their source comes from the extra-canonical scriptures of
Hinduism.
Identical Life Experiences
(1) Krishna was miraculously conceived and born of the Virgin Devaki
("Divine One") as a divine incarnation.
(2) He was born at a time when his family had to travel to pay the
yearly tax.
(3) His father was a carpenter yet Krishna was born of royal descent.
(4) His birth was attended by angels, wise men and shepherds, and he
was presented with gifts.
(5) He was persecuted by a tyrant who ordered the slaughter of
thousands of infants who feared that the divine child would supplant
his kingdom.
(6) His father was warned by a heavenly voice to flee the tyrant who
sought the death of the child. The child was then saved by friends who
fled with them in the night to a distant country. When the tyrant
learned that his attempt to kill the child failed, he issued a decree
that all the infants in the area be put to death. Writing about Krishna
in the eighteenth century, Sir William Jones stated, "In the Sanskrit
dictionary, compiled more than two thousand years ago, we have the
whole history of the incarnate deity, born of a virgin, and
miraculously escaping in infancy from the reigning tyrant of his
country." (Asiatic Researches, Vol. I, p. 273).
(7) The Bible states that Jesus and family fled to Egypt afterward to
escape from King Herod. According to the Christian apocryphal text "the
Gospel of the Infancy," the family traveled to Maturea, Egypt. Krishna
was born in Maturea, India, hundreds of years earlier.
(8) He was baptized in the River Ganges.
(9) The missions of Krishna and Jesus were the same - the salvation of
humanity.
(10) Krishna worked miracles and wonders such as raising the dead and
healing lepers, the deaf and the blind.
(11) Krishna used parables to teach the people about charity and love.
(12) Jesus taught his disciples about the possibility of removing a
mountain by faith. According to tradition, Krishna raised Mount
Goverdhen above his disciples to protect his worshipers from the wrath
of Indra.
(13) "He lived poor and he loved the poor."
(14) Krishna washed the feet of the Brahmins and transfigured before
his disciples.
(15) Krishna's teachings and Jesus' teachings were very similar. The
celebrated French missionary and traveler, Evarist-Regis Hucv, who made
a journey of several thousand miles through China and Tibet, stated,
"If we addressed a Mogul or Tibetan this question, 'Who is Krishna?'
the reply was instantly 'The savior of men." According to Robert
Cheyne, "All that converting the Hindoos to Christianity does for them
is to change the object of their worship from Krishna to Christ."
Appleton's Cyclopedia says this about the teachings of Krishna: "Its
correspondence with the New Testament is indeed striking."
(16) There is an extra-canonical Hindu tradition which states that
Krishna was crucified. According to some traditions, Krishna died on a
tree or was crucified between two thieves.
(17) He descended to hell, rose bodily from the dead, and ascended to
heaven which was witnessed by many.
(18) Krishna is called the "shepherd god" and "lord of lords," and was
considered "the redeemer, firstborn, sin bearer, liberator, universal
Word."
(19) He is the second person of the trinity, and proclaimed himself the
"resurrection" and the "way to the Father."
(20) He was considered the "beginning, the middle and the end," ("alpha
and omega"), as well as being omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent.
(21) His disciples bestowed upon him the title "Jezeus," meaning "pure
essence."
(22) Krishna is to return again riding a white horse to do battle with
the "prince of evil," who will desolate the earth.
"How, if you hear that the man newly dead is, like the man newly born,
still living man - one same, existent Spirit - will you weep? The end
of birth is death; the end of death is birth: this is ordained!" -
Bhagavad Gita (The Song Celestial: 2)
"I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is
born again ... no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of
water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives
birth to spirit. You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You must be
born again.' The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound,
but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is
with everyone born of the Spirit." - Jesus Christ (John 3:3-8)
More on this:
http://www.stephen-knapp.com/christianity's_similarities_with_hinduism.
htm
http://hinduism.about.com/od/basics/a/christianity.htm
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.
