Posted on 04/03/2006 2:16:16 PM PDT by clawrence3
The question has come up on different threads here - we know everyone who wants all ILLEGAL immigration stopped, but who is for stopping all LEGAL immigration as well? Whether it is just for a "short" time or permanently, let me know.
You do understand the difference between legal and illegal immigration, don't you? The legal crowd is educated, technically savvy and probably the people you, your children or your grandchildren will be working for.
Right on. Get some Dr.s, Dentists and Lawyers. We could certainly use a lot more.
Supply and demand might set the pay scale in a more reasonable range.
We could use the savings to pay for higher priced fruit and vegies.
:)Easy Does It:)
American companies get the foreign skilled labor through H-1B work visas, which serve two purposes
1. Drive out high paying American knowledge workers with indentured servents
2. Have the H-1B workers return home and set up foreign offices for American companies. Bangalore is chock full of companies or divisions run by former H1-B workers.
I'm not sure what the numbers were back in the "huddled masses" era of immigration through Ellis Island, but they were high (and the population of our country was MUCH lower) and they assimilated fine. What we need is to eliminate the liberal mentality of ALL cultures being equal. They are most definately NOT. That is why so many people leave the hell holes they were born in to travel around the world to become Americans. I think the assimilation occurs when we have or 3 million immigrants a year, but only 50,000 are Mexican, 50,000 are Irish, 50,000 are Swedes, 50,000 are Ukrainian, etc.
Do you also suggest that if being raped, one should just lay back and enjoy it?
>You do understand the difference between legal and
>illegal immigration, don't you? The legal crowd is
>educated, technically savvy and probably the people
>you, your children or your grandchildren will be
>working for.
You stated that if we wanted to live off money stolen by the government from current workers (after decades of having money stolen from our own paychecks to feed the current leeches) that we needed to accept the currently insane levels of legal immigration pushed through by Ted Kennedy in 1965. I used the analogy that we were already being raped - as in, our hard earned pay is being stolen by a socialistic ponzi scheme to feed aging parasites who did not properly plan for their gray years - and now we have to lie back and enjoy it by allowing millions of legal immigrants who depress wages, overcrowd our cities and schools, and are increasingly refusing to assimilate into American culture and somehow we have to pretend that is a good thing.
I know the difference between legal and illegal immigration. Illegal immigration is absolutely intolerable and the current insane legal immigration policies as pushed through by Ted Kennedy in 1965 are almost as intolerable.
Foreign workers coming on H1-B and L1 visas are unlikely to ever leave and most don't. They are willing to work for wages lower than any American worker will ever want to work. This depresses the wages in many industries. They don't ask for the same benefits either and this causes industries who hire them to start eliminating those benefits at the expense of American workers who expect them. The promise of pushing manufacturing to Mexico and overseas locations in the 1990 was that it would cause America's workforce to go to high tech, better paying jobs. The knife in the back is the advent of the H1-B and L1 visas which let in, on their own, another 500,000 workers per year to take American jobs. Add this to the massive move to outsource American high tech jobs to places like China and India where workers will work for 50% to 30% of what an American worker expects.
Are you getting the picture yet? Legal immigration is not necessarily the panacea everyone pretends it is. I am not proposing a permanent stop to legal immigration. I propose a moratorium on it until we can control who is actually coming through our borders and working in our country and then we'll start letting in legal migrants on our own terms and only when it can be proven to benefit America first and not benefit a foreign nation, and multi-national corporation who no longer owes their allegiance to America, or any other entity other than red, white, and blue Americans.
Correct.
I'll count you as a member of the AFIBB (the Association for the Importation of Beautiful Babes)
You've been ignoring them because you have no legitimate argument based on fact and not just feelings to support your idea of massive legal immigration.
YOU need to look at the bible a bit more closely, especially the part about being your brother's keeper.
I am my brother's keeper. True. However, that does not mean that I should dismantle my nation's borders and allow every single soul into my nation regardless of the detrimental effects such an insane policy would cause. Tell me, brother's keeper, how many homeless people have you moved into your home? Did you just throw your front door open and allow in each and every homeless person looking to stay in your home of opportunity?
Taking in the best and brightest from every third world hellhole in the world does those countries no favors. The best and brightest abandon the peoply they leave behind to continue to suffer in their mess of a country. We physically, geographically, and economically can't fit everyone in the world who has less wealth and opportunity into our borders. In fact, even though most of our immigrants come from their, Mexico is one of the most wealthy nations in the world. If we take in 1.5 million immigrants per year from all impoverished nations in the world, we won't even be taking in the birth replacement rates within those countries. We take in a million and a half while millions of babies are born in those countries. Do the math. It doesn't work.
Did I say I supported illegal immigration? Did I say I supported amnesty for those that are here illegally? Did I say that I supported a path to citizenship for those here illegally, no matter how long that path may be?
Did I say that you did? No, instead I corrected your horrible revision of history in which you stated that our nation was founded upon a worthless poem written by a socialist poet a full century after our Constitution was ratified by our Founding Fathers. I suggested that you instead learn upon what our nation was founded by actually reading and referring to foundational documents such as the Bible, the Magna Carta, the Declaration of Independence, the U.S. Constitution and the Bill of Rights, and the Federalist and anti-Federalist Papers among other things. Where you got the idea that I was saying that your are pro-illegal immigration and all that nonsense you just posted is beyond me?
You need to read your US history of the 19th century a bit closer and find out how many accomplishments and contributions to this country were made by LEGAL immigrants from Ireland, France, Spain, Italy, Russia, Poland, Germany, China, and others who had nothing more than a strong desire to better themselves in the Land of Opportunity.
I have not condemned the mass immigration of the 19th Century. In fact, I applaud it. My own family came over at that time. One of my ancestors was a musician who quickly joined one of the musical groups here and was happily playing patriotic American music on his trumpet at parades and other events. I've read the family history and my ancestors assimilated immediately.
The difference between the immigration policies of then and now is that back then the policy was very controlled and only sane levels of immigrants were allowed in. But since 1965 and Ted Kennedy's idiotic Immigration Act, the control has been lost and the floodgates have been opened.
You sound as if you are one step away from being a white supremacist. Why do you think France gave us that Statue? Because they wished for us to accept the world's off-casts, or because we already were?
Race card. You lose.
Xenophobic people need to get a life.
Race card again. You must have no basis to your argument at all. Are you a Democrat playing a conservative on Free Republic?
I do not support giving in-state tuition to illegal aliens. I think that if an illegal alien shows up at a welfare office, or a department of motor vehicles, or any other government institution, they should be told politely to sit and wait while the local police are called. Then the local police should arrest and turn over these lawbreakers to ICE.
I agree.
That does not mean that I am anti-immigrant, and I think we have been shown that this country can absorb 500,000 more than the 700,000 LEGAL immigrants we admit each year, so we should be issuing more green cards to those WHO FOLLOWED THE RULES AND ARE ON IMMIGRATION WAITING LISTS.
I'm not anti-immigrant either. I am for a sane immigration policy. You state that you think that "we have been shown" that we can absorb another half million legal immigrants per year. Really? Prove it. Again, I'm not denying that the legal immigration of the 19th century benefitted our nation. I do, however, question that the continuance of Ted Kennedy's insane immigration policies from the 1965 Immigration Act is truly a benefit. The only sane plan is to control the border and limit legal immigration to the pre-1965 levels and only let in those for whom it can be proven will be a benefit and who will not take an American's job or depress his wages. Does that somehow, in your tortured mind, make me a white supremacist or xenophobe? If so, then you must have been one of the morons out on the streets a week ago waving a Mexican flag, chanting Viva la Raza (long live the race) while calling Americans racist for wanting sane immigration policies and not giving them instant citizenship.
A "wall" is not going to solve the problem, that's for sure. We simply don't have the manpower to guard it. I agree we need to concentrate on keeping terrorists out though, but the money for a wall would be much better spent. Helping the Mexican economy grow would be part of the overall solution too - I'm hoping the next Mexican President finally gets tough on corruption, etc.
On our side of the border, we need to work on the demand side of the equation. Higher levels of legal immigration and especially to make the process easier for qualified immigrants (i.e., the kind of people who aren't categorically prohibited from entering the country) would reduce the amount of needed enforcement by reducing the incentives to illegal immigration. Perhaps we could allow legal immigration at a higher cost to those who are unwilling to wait (rather have them paying the U.S. Treasury than coyotes), so that enforcement resources can be more effectively allocated where needed.
Another alternative is a balance of LEGAL immigration and enforcement of laws - see post above.
I would like to start with OBLers - make the American Traitors dig the footings for the new Freedom Wall from the Gulf to the Pacific.
That doesn't really answer the question: "Do you want LEGAL immigration stopped too?" No need to feel shy - a dozen people have answered "Yes" to that already.
Of course we need to enforce the laws and reduce the incentives that cause the illegals to violate our borders. But we also need to control our borders and they can't be controlled by simply throwing money and manpower at the border. A wall is a physical barrier that can deter most invaders from crossing or at least funnel them into certain areas where we can stop them. A smart wall, one rich with sensors, cameras, etc., is a force multiplier making it easer for the understaffed Border Patrol to monitor and control the border. The wall lets enforcement manpower resources to be used more effectively and allocated where needed instead of having to disburse across every inch of the border.
Remove the incentives and those already here will leave voluntarily as they have no more job, no more freebies, etc. and have no choice but to riot in the streets or get the hell out. And rioting will just bring them out in the open so that they can be rounded up and deported.
Secure the borders at the same time so that once they're out they have to stay out. This has the added benefit of enhancing our national security as terrorists would find it much harder to cross undetected.
Finally, we need to get pretty harsh with Mexico and tell them to get their crap together. This best amigos act is all too one-sided with Mexico reaping all of the benefits of its association with the United States while the average American is getting screwed. Mexico needs to fixed its own problems and if we enable 20 to 30 million pissed off former illegals to go back to Mexico they're going to make some changes pretty quickly.
1. Many of the most entrepreneurial folks I know are legal immigrants. Such folks start businesses and create jobs and services.
2. The best and the brightest leave places like Eastern Europe, India, China, Korea and even Latin America to come here legally.
3. I have too many friends who have been put through HELL by INS/ICE simply for trying to do it legally.
The only "legal" immigrants I have a problem with are those from Muslim countries, although I can't think of a way to legally single them out for prohibition of entrance to this country. Besides, you do have folks like my Iranian ex-girlfriend who HATE Islamism and come to the west to get away from it.
Thank you for your honest answer - I have no problem with racial profiling or even hightened scrutiny for Muslims, especially from terrorist havens - it's a sad reality for the 99.9% who aren't terrorists, but do they really want to come into a country that does NOT protect everyone against terorism?
LEGAL immigration has built America. But .. people came here not to build their own little empire .. they came here to be AMERICANS. America is a unique and amazing place - and it's inhabited by some of the most courageous, kind, loving, smart, dedicated, committed, talented people in the world.
When immigrants come here - they don't have to abandon their culture or celebrate their holidays - but to throw that stuff in my face and say that my culture or my holidays no longer matter - THAT IS JUST WRONG.
People should want to come here to be AN AMERICAN! We are a different breed alltogether .. and most Americans like it that way.
If people don't want to be an American - then they should just stay where they are.
No more family reunification visas. No more visa lottery. Just skill based immigration.
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