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ZOT! Army is Broken
Military Opinion ^ | October 13, 2005 | Joe Galloway

Posted on 10/17/2005 7:53:36 AM PDT by posey2004

Washington -- "Armies are fragile institutions and, for all their might, easily broken." Remember those words? They were written here, in this column, at the end of September 2003. I laid out the recipe for how to break a magnificent Army that had taken nearly two decades to rebuild itself in the wake of the Vietnam debacle.

In that early fall two years ago, Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld was still running victory laps and the words of his boss, President George W. Bush, were still ringing: "Bring `em on!"

Sadly, those two were, and still are, in charge.

Now they've broken the Army, and after this administration is history, it will take 12 or 15 or 20 years to repair the damage it's inflicted on an institution that our country desperately needs in a century as dangerous as this one......................................


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KEYWORDS: byebye; gotzot; military; zot; zotmeagain; zotmebaby; zotmedaily; zotmefrombehind; zotmehard; zotmeharder; zotmeintonextweek; zotmetillipuke; zotsfortots
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To: posey2004

If recruitment is down, it's because people are not signing up in order to get free training and education. They are signing up with the expectation that they may, and probably will, have to fight.

Probably fewer women are signing up, because now it's not a question of fighting for equal rights, but fighting an enemy and possibly getting killed.

Clinton badly damaged the armed forces, and as a result a lot of key personnel, including experienced pilots, retired. He also depleted the inventories of spare parts and used up practically every cruise missile in the arsenal. When the missile assembly lines started back up, there was a two-year delay, and it's noticeable that we still are not using them as our main weapon, the way clinton habitually did.

A peacetime army may look good, but the longer the peace had held, the more likely that incompetent officers have been promoted to key positions. When Bush went into Afghanistan he was forced to bypass most of the chain of command clinton left him, because the Pentagon contained numerous timeservers that clinton had, naturally, promoted.

When we first fought in Korea, the men had to frag a lot of their officers, because they were so incompetent they were more dangerous than the enemy. When Lincoln went to war, he had to run through numerous incompetent generals before he found one who could do the job. War is where you find out who can do the job and who can't.


61 posted on 10/17/2005 9:00:20 AM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: posey2004

From the article you posted:

"The Department of Defense "standards on qualification tests call for at least 60 percent Category 1 to 3 [the higher end of testing] and 4 percent Category 4," the lowest end, Harvey said. "The other services follow that standard and the Army National Guard always followed it as well. But the active Army chose a standard of 67 percent in Categories 1-3, and 2 percent Category 4." It now will use the Defense Department guidelines."

In other words, the Army has indeed "lowered the standards" - to the same level that the rest of the services use. Does that mean that the rest of the services have been broken?


62 posted on 10/17/2005 9:00:33 AM PDT by 2nsdammit
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To: posey2004
There is a big difference in being broken versus being worn.

Broken means no longer usable for its intended purpose. Worn means used and requires constant maintenance to maintain or return to like new.

Our soldiers are far better now more than ever, because they are battle-ready and trained. This gives them the experience they need to teach newer recruits how to win and survive on the battlefield.

Yes, it takes lots of money to repair and or replace equipment. But considering the reason -- that too is a good thing.

As for the standards change to meet recruiting...if it makes the All Volunteer Army meet goals that is not necessarily bad. But it does bear watching.

While the all volunteer Army has proven a great success, there may yet come a need to reconsider the Draft.

My personal belief is that all Americans should serve their country in some manner, be it in Armed Services or an equivalent National Service. This could be achieved in many ways, and in most cases would provide marketable skills and leadership training to our youth as well as monetary and educational benefits.

However, restoration of the Draft will be a big issue, and most assuredly avoided for as long as possible.

63 posted on 10/17/2005 9:05:37 AM PDT by Colonial Warrior ("I've entered the snapdragon part of my ....Part of me has snapped...the rest is draggin'.")
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To: Colonial Warrior

64 posted on 10/17/2005 9:08:06 AM PDT by Colonial Warrior ("I've entered the snapdragon part of my ....Part of me has snapped...the rest is draggin'.")
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To: WOSG
I understand that, but saying that Gore and Kerry were in Vietnam just like Joe Galloway is akin to casting pearls before swine.

Be Seeing You,

Chris

65 posted on 10/17/2005 9:14:05 AM PDT by section9 (Major Motoko Kusanagi says, "Jesus is Coming. Everybody look busy...")
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To: posey2004; g'nad

It's worth reading a little of the military forum, which is linked to the original article. Not many of the soldiers on it seem to agree with Joe. click below to see it:

http://forums.military.com/1/OpenTopic?a=dl&s=78919038&f=7741946716&x_id=78599&x_subject=Army%20is%20Broken&x_dpp=Y&x_link=http://www.military.com/opinion/0,,78599,00.html

I would also add that Mr. Galloways somewhat snide remarks about capitalists don't actually apply except in cases of monopoly, something that normally doesn't happen without the help of government. His remarks do give us an indication of his politics. Beyond that, I think he has a reputation for being an honorable guy.


66 posted on 10/17/2005 9:16:29 AM PDT by Sam Cree (absolute reality)
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To: RicocheT
Who better to train the troops for combat than combat vets. I served as an Army instructor, training young soldiers for combat in Vietnam, after my first two tours in Vietnam and again after my third. I can tell you, from experience, the troops, getting ready to fight a war, do not get a warm and fuzzy being taught infantry tactics by someone who does not wear a Combat Infantryman's Badge.

As far as I can see there is nothing wrong with our Army or the rest of the military. This young men and women are doing everything our government and nation has asked of them.
67 posted on 10/17/2005 9:28:43 AM PDT by Americanexpat (A strong democracy through citizen oversight.)
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To: section9
I thought we were talking the same Joe Galloway. That does count for much. I recall Bush I asked a commission to make recommendations on the minimum service size based on retaining both capability and ability to reconstitute if necessary(Army/Navy/Marines & AF) and enacted the recommended cuts. Klinton then cut the crap out of everything after the Bush I cuts.

These cuts with increased OPS are the problem.
68 posted on 10/17/2005 9:31:45 AM PDT by zek157
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To: posey2004
It was "broke" when I was in 73-76. Seemed to work fine then. Armies are always broke to naysayers. From all the stories I hear from our young troops it's working splendidly today as well. Galloway...hmmm. Consider the source.

As my platoon sarge always said, a happy soldier is a bitchin' soldier. It's the ones who are quiet you have to worry about. Soldiers have always complained since the dawn of time. Broke my eye.

69 posted on 10/17/2005 9:39:08 AM PDT by RightWingRadio
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To: posey2004
They've done more damage than Clintoon?

Really, really doubt it.

70 posted on 10/17/2005 9:40:21 AM PDT by Trailerpark Badass
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To: posey2004
Army Joe Galloway is Broken.
71 posted on 10/17/2005 9:43:36 AM PDT by verity (Don't let your children grow up to be mainstream media maggots.)
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To: posey2004
I joined the Army in 1965 as a HS dropout. I wanted the military as a career. After three combat tours and 20 years in the Army I retired in 1985 as a Master Sergeant. I served my country honorably and fought it's war when other young men with college degrees deserted her and went to Canada. I know other soldier non grads, regular Army and draftees, who served and went on to make the army a career. I have always though the Army was wrong when they stopped taking non grads.

The other thing to consider is this we have more than a million military members now with combat experience not only in the regular Army and Marines but in the Nation Guard and Reserves. If we have to go to war with several countries on several fronts and have to expand the military we have the combat experienced trainers and leaders to form the cadres for existing and new units.
72 posted on 10/17/2005 9:56:47 AM PDT by Americanexpat (A strong democracy through citizen oversight.)
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To: Arioch7
Before this administration, sometimes people didn't even go to Boot Camp in the Army Reserve.

True, they went to BCT, (the "B" isn't for "boot.")
No Army soldier, to include NG and USAR, doesn't go to BCT and then AIT.
(Assuming they weren't thrown out prior to their departure.)

73 posted on 10/17/2005 10:02:21 AM PDT by ASA Vet (Those who get their news from the MSM don't know that they don't know.)
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To: posey2004; Lead Moderator; Tony Snow
It seems somewhat counterintuitive to reduce training at the same time that we begin to fill the ranks with the less intelligent, less fortunate or just plain unlucky who walk the streets of the black and Hispanic ghettos and people from the hills and hollows of Appalachia.

The article at the website is much longer than was posted here. There should be an excerpt link.

That said, this paragraph from the article is incredibly bigotted if the furor over Bill Bennett is any guide.

They guy either needs to rephrase it, repunctuate it, or be ostracized.

74 posted on 10/17/2005 10:04:18 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It!)
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To: posey2004

It's not broken. It's being transformed. It's all spelled out in The Project For A New America


75 posted on 10/17/2005 10:15:30 AM PDT by md2576 (Don't be such a Shehan Hugger!)
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To: section9

He deserves respect for his service - but when he opens his mouth to say stupid things, like McCrazy, he can expect to be called "stupid", no holds barred, no whitewash.


76 posted on 10/17/2005 10:39:29 AM PDT by Nevermore (Mad as Zell)
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To: ASA Vet

"No Army soldier, to include NG and USAR, doesn't go to BCT and then AIT."

Not EXACTLY true. If a prior service soldier from, say, the air force enlists in the NG or USAR, they don't have to go back to BCT. Their former service's Basic is accepted.


77 posted on 10/17/2005 11:06:21 AM PDT by 2nsdammit
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To: posey2004

Within war there is an element of friction. It is brought about by uncertainty, disorder, moral and physical forces, a lack of fluidity of actions, a dynamic human will and danger. This friction is present in every armed conflict and has a corrosive effect on military elements and institutions. Like a sharp knife it will be dulled by some use. It is to be expected and planned for. I have never seen our military better prepared for the friction than in our war on terror.


78 posted on 10/17/2005 11:12:08 AM PDT by Natural Law
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To: 2nsdammit
Correct. I should have specified, "non-prior service" soldier.
79 posted on 10/17/2005 11:21:08 AM PDT by ASA Vet (Those who get their news from the MSM don't know that they don't know.)
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To: posey2004
I don't think Galloway is attacking our troops fighting abilities. I think he's like some of us veterans from that era [1960's]who are concern about the disappearing support infrastructure behind them.

If you get in troubles and you need extra manpower you don't just institute the draft and solve the problem. It isn't nearly that simple.

you can't call up a hundred thousand men and women when you have no faculties,no uniforms, weapons, firing ranges, medical and food facilities, transportation,training personnel and the 100 other things you need to get them ready for combat.

You can close a base in a few months. To build and staff a military base takes years. If you go too far it becomes almost an impossible task.

The enemy doesn't wait for you to get ready.

From 1989 to 1997, the Department of Defense reduced total active duty military end strength by 32 percent, and that figure will grow to 36 percent by 2003 as a result of the 1997 Quadrennial Defense Review [QDR]. After four base closing rounds, only 21 percent of the military installations in the continental United States have been reduced. By 1997 the Department of Defense had already reduced its overseas base structure by almost 60 percent. Before the first base closure round, there were approximately 500 domestic military bases. When all of the bases from the first four BRAC rounds are closed, there will be about 400 bases. Ninety-seven major bases have been closed in the United States. The overseas basing structure has been further reduced, ceasing operations at over 960 facilities. The Army in Europe alone has closed the equivalent of 12 United States major maneuver bases.

There were none closed during Regan's two terms.

1988 Commission 16 Major Closures

Army Material Tech Lab, MA Cameron Station, VA Chanute AFB, IL Fort Douglas, UT Fort Sheridan, IL George AFB, CA Jefferson Proving Ground, IN Lexington Army Depot, KY Mather AFB, CA Naval Station Brooklyn, NY Naval Station Lake Charles, LA Naval Station, Galveston, TX Norton AFB, CA Pease AFB, NH Philadelphia Naval Hospital, PA Presidio of San Francisco, CA

1991 Commission 26 Major Closures

Bergstrom AFB, TX (Active Component Only) Carswell AFB, TX Castle AFB, CA Chase Field NAS, TX Eaker AFB, AR England AFB, LA Fort Benjamin Harrison, IN Fort Devens, MA Fort Ord, CA Grissom AFB, IN Hunters Point Annex, CA Loring AFB, ME Lowry AFB, CO Moffett NAS, CA Myrtle Beach AFB, SC NAV ElecSysEngrCtr, San Diego, CA Naval Station Long Beach, CA Naval Station Philadelphia, PA Naval Station Puget Sound, WA Philadelphia Naval Shipyard, PA Richards-Gebaur ARS, MO Rickenbacker AGB, OH Sacramento Army Depot, CA Tustin MCAS, CA Williams AFB, AZ Wurtsmith AFB, MI

1993 Commission 28 Major Closures

Charleston Naval Shipyard, SC Defense Per. Support Center, PA Gentile Air Force Station, OH (DESC) Homestead AFB, FL K.I. Sawyer AFB, MI Mare Island Naval Shipyard, CA MCAS El Toro, CA Naval Air Station Agana, Guam Naval Air Station Barbers Point, HI Naval Air Station Cecil Field, FL Naval Air Station Dallas, TX Naval Air Station Glenview, IL Naval Airs Station Alameda, CA Naval Aviation Depot Alameda, CA Naval Aviation Depot Norfolk, VA Naval Aviation Depot Pensacola, FL Naval Hospital Oakland, CA Naval Station Charleston, SC Naval Station Mobile, AL Naval Station Staten Island, NY Naval Station Treasure Island, CA Naval Training Center Orlando, FL Naval Training Center San Diego, CA NESEC, St. Inigoes, MD Newark AFB, OH O'Hare IAP ARS, IL Plattsburgh AFB, NY Vint Hill Farms, VA

1995 Commission 27 Major Closures

Bayonne Military Ocean Terminal, NJ Bergstrom Air Reserve Base, TX Defense Dist. Depot Memphis, TN Defense Distribution Depot Ogden, UT Fitzsimoms Army Medical Center, CO Fleet Industrial SU. Center, Oakland, CA Fort Chaffee, AR Fort Holabird, MD Fort Indiantown Gap, PA Fort McClellan, AL Fort Pickett, VA Fort Ritchie, MD McClellan AFB, CA Naval Air Facility, Adak, AK Naval Air Station, South Weymoth, MA Naval Air Warfare Center, Aircraft Division, Indianapolis, IN Naval Shipyard, Long Beach, CA NAWC, Aircraft Div., Warminster, PA NAWC, Crane Division Detachment, Louisville, KY NSWC, Dahlgren Division Detachment, White Oak, MD Oakland Army Base, CA Ontario IAP Air Guard Station, CA Resse AFB, TX Roslyn Air Guard Station, NY Savanna Army Depot Activity, IL Seneca Army Depot, NY Ship Repair Facility, Guam

Now we are in the process of after Bill Clinton of following the same pattern and closing 33 more major bases.

I hope these none fighting number crunchers know what they are doing.

80 posted on 10/17/2005 11:47:12 AM PDT by mississippi red-neck (You will never win the war on terrorism by fighting it in Iraq and funding it in the West Bank.)
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