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The Great UFO Debate
SPACE.com ^ | Thursday, July 14, 2005 | Seth Shostak

Posted on 07/15/2005 5:21:02 PM PDT by Momaw Nadon

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To: Momaw Nadon
If we are being observed by extra-terrestrials it will more likely be by nano-probes not much bigger than molecules.

Our technology is close to this devleopment already.

21 posted on 07/15/2005 7:36:13 PM PDT by Semper Paratus
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To: TAquinas
She did not draw those maps. LOL!

I DIDNT say she did. Those maps are more professionally drawn versions if the Zeta Reticuli.

22 posted on 07/15/2005 7:55:58 PM PDT by lowbridge
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To: lowbridge

You wrote: "How did abductee Betty Hill manage to draw an accurate picture of a distant star system years before it was discovered by astronomers?"

And I mentioned that it didn't look like a map, much less accurate. Now that I take a look at it, it looks more like a flashlight.

And then you presented me with more professional maps. But not of Betty Hill. We were talking about BH's maps, not professional maps.

Betty Hills' so-called accurate map of a distant star system looks like a scribble my daughter could have made.

LOL! That ain't no map. That ain't no accurate, and that ain't a distant (nor near) star system.


23 posted on 07/15/2005 8:12:42 PM PDT by TAquinas (Demographics has consequences.)
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To: TAquinas

The resemblance of B.H. map to the professional one is about the same as my rendetion of the Mona Lisa would be to the original.

(I can't draw squat)


24 posted on 07/15/2005 8:15:00 PM PDT by Graybeard58 (Remember and pray for Sgt. Matt Maupin - MIA/POW- Iraq since 04/09/04)
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To: lowbridge
I'm not taking sides on this pro or con although I have followed the story for many decades -- quite interesting, if nothing else.

Lowbridge, you may want to check out THE HILL ALIENS Part of Chapters 11 & 12 ... you may find it quite interesting.

25 posted on 07/15/2005 9:51:48 PM PDT by Boomer Geezer (Sgt. Wanda Dabbs, 22, of the 230th, called out, "That's my president, hooah!" and there were cheers.)
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To: Momaw Nadon
between one and two-thirds of the public thinks that extraterrestrial life exists

What's the margin of error? ;-)

26 posted on 07/15/2005 10:28:25 PM PDT by My2Cents (If Mama Cass had only shared that ham sandwich with Karen Carpenter, both might still be alive today)
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To: Momaw Nadon
to allow their crews to conduct bizarre (and, in most states, illegal) experiments

Not illegal in California.

27 posted on 07/15/2005 10:29:10 PM PDT by My2Cents (If Mama Cass had only shared that ham sandwich with Karen Carpenter, both might still be alive today)
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To: Las Vegas Dave
Hey Dave,
(Thanks for the ping BTW)
Have you read Corso's book, "The Day After Roswell"?
How about Friedman's book, "Crash at Corona"?

Oh, and for anyone interested, they finally synthesized element 115 - and it's not stable, so Bob Lazar is discredited.

28 posted on 07/16/2005 12:43:00 AM PDT by Bon mots
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To: TAquinas
You wrote: "How did abductee Betty Hill manage to draw an accurate picture of a distant star system years before it was discovered by astronomers?"

And I mentioned that it didn't look like a map, much less accurate.

True. Your words were: "That's "an accurate picture of a distant star system?" And I pointed out that it was drawn by hand under hypnosis. So I can understand not accepting hand drawn maps under hypnosis.

Now that I take a look at it, it looks more like a flashlight.

And the big dipper looks like....a big dipper.

And then you presented me with more professional maps. But not of Betty Hill. We were talking about BH's maps, not professional maps.

I presented the professional maps because obviously you didnt want to accept a hand drawn map by someone under hypnosis (which is understandable).

Astronomers at Ohio State University had a computer put them in their exact position out beyond the double star system of Zeta Reticuli 1 and Zeta Reticuli 2--220 trillion miles, 37 light years from earth, looking toward our sun. The computer duplicated with virtually no variation, the map of Betty Hill.

http://ufocasebook.com/Hill3.html

Betty Hills' so-called accurate map of a distant star system looks like a scribble my daughter could have made.

Well I'm sorry that Betty Hill's profession was not professional map maker.

LOL! That ain't no map. That ain't no accurate, and that ain't a distant (nor near) star system.

It's a map, it's accurate, It's the Zeta Reticuli.

http://www.nicap.dabsol.co.uk/hillmap.htm

29 posted on 07/16/2005 5:36:17 AM PDT by lowbridge
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To: lowbridge





30 posted on 07/16/2005 6:15:35 AM PDT by vannrox (The Preamble to the Bill of Rights - without it, our Bill of Rights is meaningless!)
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To: carlr

You've brought out some good points, although the conclusions might be a bit hasty IMHO.

I've considered the issue in a different vein.

I've found remarkable similarity of the style of problem between discerning supernatural phenomenon and the 'UFO/alien' issues.

In both cases, numerous eyewitness testimonies have provided the basis of assertions that these phenomenon exist. In both cases the testimonies indicate other persons are involved in the reported phenomenon and that said persons are able to perform supernatural feats.

To argue UFO/aliens do not exist because insufficient reproducible evidence exists is a poor argument. Considering a good percentage of humanity rejects even the historicity of Jesus Christ, not to mention his ressurrection and status as the Son of God on similar premise, for those who testify to His status as Lord and Savior, the counterargument for lack of evidence regarding UFO/aliens appears even more arrogant and untrustworthy.

Considering the similarities between UFOlogy and Theology, yet also their differences, I suspect many of the problematic areas of UFOlogy might be better understood upon a btter grasp of Theology. Especially since in Scripture we are warned of deceiving spirits and malevolent persons in the spiritual domain. This revelation from God is far more truthful than following a materialist perspective that an anthropology from another world travelled billions and billions of miles only to manifest a primeivel fascination with human tissue sampling,..or else rejecting even the existence of such phenomenon.


31 posted on 07/16/2005 6:42:15 AM PDT by Cvengr (<;^))
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To: Momaw Nadon; vannrox; demlosers; FreedomNeocon; Swordmaker; Quix

"The burden of proof is on those making the claims, not those who find the data dubious."

Actually, if there is a burden of proof, it is on those who, through denial, are accusing lots of people of being liars, fools, cads, etc.

And no one is under any obligation to please the deniers with data or anything else. **** 'em.

Refuting Fermi: No Evidence for Extraterrestrial Life?
National Institute for Discovery Science | John B. Alexander, Ph.D
Posted on 01/02/2005 4:43:04 AM PST by SunkenCiv
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1312384/posts


32 posted on 07/16/2005 11:12:16 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (last updated by FR profile on Tuesday, May 10, 2005.)
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To: Las Vegas Dave

Please put me on the Art Bell/weird/Ufology ping list!

Me too!
Me too!

Thanks!


33 posted on 07/16/2005 11:53:19 AM PDT by A knight without armor
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To: SunkenCiv

May see if I can post some docs from this site. Some good qulity reports from quality, well trained observers:

http://www.nuforc.org/

Well put post, BTW, Thanks.


34 posted on 07/16/2005 1:08:57 PM PDT by Quix (GOD'S LOVE IS INCREDIBLE . . . BUT MUST BE RECEIVED TO . . .)
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To: Momaw Nadon
Visits by aliens who hit and run and don't attempt to make official and obvious contact make no sense to me. The physics of interstellar travel make the whole thing unlikely.

I have absolutely no doubt that the universe if full of all kinds of life but the lights in the sky could more easily be time machines from our own future than alien space craft, IMHO.

35 posted on 07/16/2005 1:15:04 PM PDT by muir_redwoods (Free Sirhan Sirhan, after all, the bastard who killed Mary Jo Kopeckne is walking around free)
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To: Momaw Nadon

I've been looking for hard evidence in the sense of hardware. I have also been watching the sky since Sputnik 1. If something is going on, there ought to be some actual evidence besides mysterious scoops and Moses-like burns, but so far, nothing.


36 posted on 07/16/2005 1:19:39 PM PDT by RightWhale (Substance is essentially the relationship of accidents to itself)
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To: Las Vegas Dave

Please put me on the Art Bell/weird/Ufology ping list!

Me also! and...thanks!!


37 posted on 07/16/2005 1:58:57 PM PDT by BigSkyVic
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To: carlr

I agree.IMO,even if there is intelligent life out in space,the chances of us ever meeting are maybe 1 in a billion?Too many conditions have to be met,and as you pointed out we're nowhere near the necessary technological level.


38 posted on 07/16/2005 4:46:41 PM PDT by Thombo2
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To: Las Vegas Dave

UFO list? Yeah, I'll try it for a while, if it's no trouble.


39 posted on 07/16/2005 9:46:43 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (last updated by FR profile on Tuesday, May 10, 2005.)
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To: Las Vegas Dave; Quix

Thanks for the ping.

I think it's not big news that alien visitation is *unproven.* To most of us, anyway [Quix :-)]. In that sense, the article does nothing more than state the obvious.

The fact that so many highly respected professionals have witnessed UFO's, combined with the real possibility of their existence, should at the very least be provocative to all of us.


40 posted on 07/17/2005 7:27:16 PM PDT by Sam Cree (Democrats are herd animals)
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