Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Is the US really interesting in winning Iraq?
My own | 02-10-05 | Del Rio Wildcat 2

Posted on 02/10/2005 11:27:03 AM PST by Del Rio Wildcat 2

This is a hurriedly written piece on which I plan to elaborate in the near future.

First of all, let me state I am an Americanist patriot. I am not a Republican, Democrat, Libertarian nor any party person. I have come to realize over a number of years -- especially at the national level -- that a person who hopes to get enough popular support to win has to appeal to and placate many interest groups. The result of all this is that one has to stand for virtually everything, and by virtue of that very fact, one actually stands for nothing. In other words to stand FOR something, one must stand AGAINST many things.

George Washington warned of party spirit during his lifetime and today's patriots -- or far too many of them -- will defend their party no matter what. It is as if their support of party A or B somehow sanctifies it.

So my criticism of George W. Bush could just as well have been against Clinton, Reagan, Carter, etc.

If one closely examines our foreign policy -- apart from the baloney put out by the Council on Foreign Relations and their ilk -- one can only conclude that it has been one of supporting financially and otherwise virtually every tin-pot dictator in the world. Then we come back months or years later having to fight them in one kind of war or another. That is, unless they are Russian, Chinese or Cubans -- Korea and Vietnam aside.

Now to the main point. I don't believe we are interesting in winning in Iraq. Forget the fact that the CIA propped up and helped to finance Saddam Hussein years back.

Consider how we have allowed the continuation of the murder of hundreds of American soldiers, American civilians, Iraqi policeman, civilians and military. We have been warned by several military generals and colonels that you cannot fight a defensive war against terrorists (insurgents). We lost that battle in Vietnam and other places in between as we are now.

If we were serious about winning in Iraq, we would recognize that Russia, China, Iran, Syria and other Marxist (yes I said Marxist -- Communism is not dead) have been the financers, supporters and source of much of the terrorism going on in Iraq.

When first we went into Iraq we used the Navy Seals (remember how the rescued the off shore oil rigs South East of Iraq) when terrorist were fixing to blow them up and how we used Army Rangers to create chaos in Mozul before the "regular" troops came from the South.

You cannot fight professional terrorists with inadequately) trained (no offense against) US troops. They simply are not able to fight this kind of warfare.

Further when our government allows civilians and send GIs and Marines into this environment without giving the latter all they need to win (i.e. special forces training)then that is criminal action, if not murder. In effect, that is giving a "kind of aid and comfort" to the enemy by offering little or no solid resistance and that, my friend, is tantamount to treason.

Do you think the president would allow this second-rate strategy if his daughters were in Iraq? I doubt it. I imagine he would have NOTHING BUT THE BEST to protect them -- and well he should.

Point is that in reality every innocent American life is as important as the President's daughters.

I am livid about this. I want to grab those responsible for this milk-toast military policy in Iraq by the scruff of the neck and... as we say in Texas, "teach them how the 'cow eats the cabbage'."

Either properly train our troops how to fight these Communist butcher and kill ALL of their leadership or get the heck out and bring all of our troops home.

Lastly, my fellow Americans, we get the kind of leadership we deserve. Until we stop following the idea of electing "politicians" and turn back to electing "statesmen" we shall continue to get the 2nd rate, deplorable leadership we have had for decades. And the key is Congress. That is where the real power resides; not in the Executive or Judicial branch. Get a copy of the U.S. Constitution and read Article 3, Section 2 for example.

In all cases affecting ambassadors, other public ministers and consuls, and those in which a state shall be party, the Supreme Court shall have original jurisdiction. "In all the other cases before mentioned, the Supreme Court shall have appellate jurisdiction, both as to law and fact, with such exceptions, and under such regulations as the Congress shall make." i.e. note the 2nd part that is in quotes above.

So the solution is to relearn our Constitution, start electing statemen to office and put a complete stop to our self-defeating foreign policies which includes diplomatically recognizing and financiing brutal communist regimes and those of their ilk.

There is no substitute for righteous indignation. And we have lost far too much of that.

Your humble servant.


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: artejohnson; drivel; herekittykittykitty; jbs; pinhead; policy; rambling; terrorism; totallyincoherent; troll; zotbait
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-68 next last
To: Del Rio Wildcat 2
Hey Joe,

Given the overwhelming response to your last writing, ummm, experiment... maybe you could take a hint and just comment on the articles like the rest of us? Give it some thought.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1324358/posts

Thanks much,
Coop

21 posted on 02/10/2005 11:47:00 AM PST by Coop (In memory of a true hero - Pat Tillman)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: xone

sorry xone... that last reply of mine was for the author.. not you.


22 posted on 02/10/2005 11:48:11 AM PST by sdpatriot ("If I know the answer I'll tell you the answer, and if I don't, I'll just respond, cleverly." Rummy)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: Coop

Given the idiotic (not all of) responses which I have just read, I am not so sure we are deserving of liberty. I have never read such pablum and nonsense in my life.

Maybe my point that we get what we deserve as a whole is more true than even I thought.

May God preserve us in spite of the numb nuts.


23 posted on 02/10/2005 11:51:41 AM PST by Del Rio Wildcat 2
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: Del Rio Wildcat 2
I have never read such pablum and nonsense in my life.

You should always proofread before posting.

24 posted on 02/10/2005 11:52:30 AM PST by Coop (In memory of a true hero - Pat Tillman)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: Del Rio Wildcat 2; Coop; aculeus; general_re; BlueLancer; Poohbah; hellinahandcart
This is a hurriedly written piece on which I plan to elaborate in the near future.

What have we done to deserve it?

25 posted on 02/10/2005 11:52:55 AM PST by dighton
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: dighton
May God preserve us in spite of the numb nuts.

Fortunately the numb nuts aren't fighting the war on terrorism. They're too busy writing vanities. [ba dum bum!]

26 posted on 02/10/2005 11:53:44 AM PST by Coop (In memory of a true hero - Pat Tillman)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: Del Rio Wildcat 2; Coop; hchutch; WOSG; Blurblogger; Dog
"Now to the main point. I don't believe we are interesting in winning in Iraq."

We already won Iraq. Whatever is left of the former resistance is killing fewer people in Iraq (about 12 to 20 Iraqis and 1 to 2 Americans) than random muggers kill in Brazil each day (110 adults shot dead every day there).

Iraq has a democratic government now. Iraq is a friend of the U.S. now. Iraq produces more oil (2.2 million bpd in 2004) now than under Hussein (2.1 million bpd in 2002). Iraq's hospitals and schools are better equipped and better staffed, and their roads and bridges have been rebuilt, too.

Unlike under Hussein during sanctions, the Iraqi people aren't starving to death today. Iraqi water is better today than under Hussein, and even the septic/sewer systems are better now than then.

Oh, and Iraq is writing its own Constitution.

Iraq after 2 years of U.S. influence is farther along than Germany after 10 years of U.S. occupation after WW2.

27 posted on 02/10/2005 11:54:25 AM PST by Southack (Media Bias means that Castro won't be punished for Cuban war crimes against Black Angolans in Africa)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Del Rio Wildcat 2

Put that Etch-A-Sketch® down, and step away from the adult beverage table, D.

We're kicking muslim terrorist ass, major league. The traitorous liberal-demokkkRATs are making it seem a whole lot worse than it really is, to the American public. Get a grip.


28 posted on 02/10/2005 11:54:48 AM PST by 7.62 x 51mm (• veni • vidi • vino • visa • "I came, I saw, I drank wine, I shopped")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Del Rio Wildcat 2

This sounds like a rant from a leftist who's trying to look like a conservative. The typical leftist drivel of the likes, "Why aren't Bush's daughters in the war?" are inserted, yet presented in a way that we're supposed to think this isn't the same crap we've been hearing from the Micheal Moore types for months now? Please.

Also, the not too subtle slam on our troop's ability to get the job done, virtually saying, in effect, that the majority of the troops are stupid, ill trained morons that couldn't shoot a rifle to save their life. Another typical lefty belief, that our military is staffed by clods who's only objective is to KILL and they don't care who (implying also of course Iraqi civilians).

Sorry champ, I'm not buying it. I think your worthy of kitty chow at this point.


29 posted on 02/10/2005 11:58:15 AM PST by FourtySeven (47)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: dighton
What have we done to deserve it?

LOL! I wonder if the evil mods believe in the Bush doctrine of preemptive strikes?

30 posted on 02/10/2005 12:00:19 PM PST by Coop (In memory of a true hero - Pat Tillman)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: Del Rio Wildcat 2
George Washington warned of party spirit during his lifetime and today's patriots -- or far too many of them -- will defend their party no matter what. It is as if their support of party A or B somehow sanctifies it.

Would you be speaking of those who voted for Kerry, just because they hated Bush??

I have a friend who did that, thought Kerry was a traitor, and useless, but voted for him anyway.

31 posted on 02/10/2005 12:05:11 PM PST by AirForceMom (God Bless America!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Del Rio Wildcat 2
Nice essay.

In response to the question you raised in your title, we first must define "winning"

It could be argued that the objective in this situation is unclear and has changed significantly in the 3 years our brave troops have been there.

It is certainly possible that our efforts in iraq are just as you state. The additional element of "nation building" further blurs the objective.

On a lighter note, please explain what that "cow eating cabbage" reference means.....we have plenty of cows here in Ohio, but I've not spent much time being near them....

32 posted on 02/10/2005 12:07:05 PM PST by WhiteGuy ("a taxpayer dollar must be spent wisely, or not at all" - GW BUSH)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Coop

of course they do! But the Point is that in reality every innocent troll life is as important as the mod's daughters.

ummm...... kinda..


33 posted on 02/10/2005 12:07:24 PM PST by sdpatriot ("If I know the answer I'll tell you the answer, and if I don't, I'll just respond, cleverly." Rummy)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: Del Rio Wildcat 2
May God preserve us in spite of the numb nuts.

Go over and ply your drivel at DU, I am sure they will fawn all over you. May even crown you King of the Moonbats.

34 posted on 02/10/2005 12:08:00 PM PST by AirForceMom (God Bless America!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: Del Rio Wildcat 2
trained (no offense against) US troops.......

I'm always amused by leftists...or in your case "nonpartisans" who attack the troops and think that by SAYING they're not attacking the troops first that that makes it all right.

I'm not saying you're a knucklehead, but you're a knucklehead. Does that insult you? Then guess how the troops feel when you say crap like that?

35 posted on 02/10/2005 12:14:29 PM PST by Darkwolf377 ("Of the four wars in my lifetime none came about because the U.S. was too strong."-Ronald Reagan)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Del Rio Wildcat 2

"Consider how we have allowed the continuation of the murder of hundreds of American soldiers, American civilians, Iraqi policeman, civilians and military. We have been warned by several military generals and colonels that you cannot fight a defensive war against terrorists (insurgents). We lost that battle in Vietnam and other places in between as we are now."

Excuse me but I would hardly say that we are "allowing" it. To the contrary we are fighting it and winning. This part sounds a bit too DU.

Is that ozone in the air?


36 posted on 02/10/2005 12:19:12 PM PST by beltfed308
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Del Rio Wildcat 2
Just a few inline comments:

If one closely examines our foreign policy -- apart from the baloney put out by the Council on Foreign Relations and their ilk -- one can only conclude that it has been one of supporting financially and otherwise virtually every tin-pot dictator in the world. Then we come back months or years later having to fight them in one kind of war or another. That is, unless they are Russian, Chinese or Cubans -- Korea and Vietnam aside.

Guess what? From the end of WWII until the Berlin Wall fell, there was this little thing called the cold war that the United States was engaged in. We supported tin-pot dictators, and the Soviets supported tin-pot dictators. We were more interested in basing rights and keeping out communism than we were about strictly enforcing Jeffersonian democracy. I suppose it would have been better if all of Central and South America went the way of Cuba?

Now to the main point. I don't believe we are interesting in winning in Iraq. Forget the fact that the CIA propped up and helped to finance Saddam Hussein years back.

We supported Hussein while he was at war with Iran. It was the opinion of the United States that it best served the peace of the entire region to have Iran and Iraq so preoccupied with each other that the rest of the area was left alone. Look at what happened when the Iraq/Iran war ended. Iraq got bored and invaded Kuwaiti. Something that may have happened a decade earlier had it not been for the U.S. supporting Iraq to continue their war against Iran.

Consider how we have allowed the continuation of the murder of hundreds of American soldiers, American civilians, Iraqi policeman, civilians and military. We have been warned by several military generals and colonels that you cannot fight a defensive war against terrorists (insurgents). We lost that battle in Vietnam and other places in between as we are now.

Allow? How are we allowing the continuation of the murder of our Troops? Are we not trying to hunt down and kill or capture the terrorist cells? Are we not trying to rid Iraq of these vermin? I suppose you would also say that Great Britain "allowed" British soldiers to be killed by the IRA in Belfast, too? It takes but a handful of bad guys to set off a car bomb, and even if we were to place the entire United State Army in Iraq we would be hard pressed to stop a single car bomber. It is insulting to use the term "allow."

If we were serious about winning in Iraq, we would recognize that Russia, China, Iran, Syria and other Marxist (yes I said Marxist -- Communism is not dead) have been the financers, supporters and source of much of the terrorism going on in Iraq.

Syria I can buy, but Russia sold arms to Hussein's Iraq, not to the insurgents. Ditto China, France, and Germany. Which is why those countries opposed the Iraq war. They wanted to be paid for what they already delivered to Iraq, and the sanctions were preventing this. They didn't care one way or the other about the internal politics of Iraq.

When first we went into Iraq we used the Navy Seals (remember how the rescued the off shore oil rigs South East of Iraq) when terrorist were fixing to blow them up and how we used Army Rangers to create chaos in Mozul before the "regular" troops came from the South.

You cannot fight professional terrorists with inadequately) trained (no offense against) US troops. They simply are not able to fight this kind of warfare.

Guess what? We cannot have an army of 150,000 Navy SEALs or or Army Rangers. The definition of an elite unit is that is ELITE. Do you think if we flood Iraq with 150,000 commandos with their faces painted green, that they can slink through the streets of Sadr City and find all the bad guys overnight? HELL NO. What we need is intel. Do you think a Navy SEAL who grew up on a farm in Kansas can blend into the street scene in Baghdad to gather intel? NO. We need to build up an Iraqi intelligence unit that can blend into the local groups to uncover terrorist cells. It is happening, but it won't and can't happen overnight, which is what you and the rest of the clueless Liberal Press thinks should happen.

Further when our government allows civilians and send GIs and Marines into this environment without giving the latter all they need to win (i.e. special forces training)then that is criminal action, if not murder. In effect, that is giving a "kind of aid and comfort" to the enemy by offering little or no solid resistance and that, my friend, is tantamount to treason.

What special forces training would save a road convoy from being hit by a camouflaged roadside bomb?

Do you think the president would allow this second-rate strategy if his daughters were in Iraq? I doubt it. I imagine he would have NOTHING BUT THE BEST to protect them -- and well he should.

Point is that in reality every innocent American life is as important as the President's daughters.

Take your argument to the absurd extreme: We should have an M-1 Abrams tank for every single soldier, sailor, and airman in Iraq to tool around in? Ridiculous.

I am livid about this. I want to grab those responsible for this milk-toast military policy in Iraq by the scruff of the neck and... as we say in Texas, "teach them how the 'cow eats the cabbage'."

If you're so livid about the loss of American life, then go do something more useful. In the year 2003 there were 43,220 traffic deaths, with 40 percent alcohol related. Go do something about drunk driving and save 17,000 lives a year, instead of your self-righteous indignation over 1,100 combat losses in Iraq. Yes, every life is precious, and yes we should do everything possible to save each and every soldier's life. But in war bad things happen to good people.

Either properly train our troops how to fight these Communist butcher and kill ALL of their leadership or get the heck out and bring all of our troops home.

What's your plan? Round up every 5th family in Sadr City, Mosul, and Falouja, line them up in the street, and shoot them. Then announce that another group of women and children will be shot every day until the roadside bomb attacks cease? Tell me what training our troops need to shield them from random roadside bombs?

Lastly, my fellow Americans, we get the kind of leadership we deserve. Until we stop following the idea of electing "politicians" and turn back to electing "statesmen" we shall continue to get the 2nd rate, deplorable leadership we have had for decades. And the key is Congress. That is where the real power resides; not in the Executive or Judicial branch. Get a copy of the U.S. Constitution and read Article 3, Section 2 for example.

In all cases affecting ambassadors, other public ministers and consuls, and those in which a state shall be party, the Supreme Court shall have original jurisdiction. "In all the other cases before mentioned, the Supreme Court shall have appellate jurisdiction, both as to law and fact, with such exceptions, and under such regulations as the Congress shall make." i.e. note the 2nd part that is in quotes above.

So the solution is to relearn our Constitution, start electing statemen to office and put a complete stop to our self-defeating foreign policies which includes diplomatically recognizing and financiing brutal communist regimes and those of their ilk.

There is no substitute for righteous indignation. And we have lost far too much of that.

What do you propose the Congress to do? They voted for the use of force in Iraq, and they vote periodically to continue to fund the effort. The Supreme Court is ruling on how we must treat our detainees, and if you re-read your constitution, the chief executive is also the Commander-In-Chief of the armed forces.

37 posted on 02/10/2005 12:26:50 PM PST by Yo-Yo
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Del Rio Wildcat 2; sarasota; 4mycountry; TheBigB; VRWCmember; Zavien Doombringer; jriemer; ...


Please let me know if you want ON or OFF my Viking Kitty/ZOT ping list!. . .don't be shy.


38 posted on 02/10/2005 12:55:11 PM PST by MeekOneGOP (There is only one GOOD 'RAT: one that has been voted OUT of POWER !! Straight ticket GOP!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Billthedrill
Have you ever been in the military

I would say NO but he probably has "protested" the military as murderers, baby killers, etc. I've seen his kind many times. "I love America, BUT......"

39 posted on 02/10/2005 1:02:40 PM PST by zip (Remember: DimocRat lies told often enough became truth to 48% of Americans)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: Del Rio Wildcat 2

Now look what you have done.

Sylvester is getting angry!


40 posted on 02/10/2005 1:03:47 PM PST by beltfed308
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-68 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson