Woman Promotes the Right to Go Topless

Los Angeles Times ^ | January 22, 2005 | Robert Salladay

[Ramonan]

SACRAMENTO — As a Ventura County public defender, Liana Johnsson has handled many life-changing cases, but her biggest public crusade these days has been going topless.

For months, Johnsson has been fighting to allow topless women at California beaches and parks.

A group of lawyers, at Johnsson's request, has asked the Legislature to make topless sunbathing legal, saying the ban is the last criminal sanction that treats women differently than men.

The new movement has urgency: Because of a December court ruling, Johnsson and other attorneys contend, women convicted of indecent exposure could find themselves listed as sex offenders under Megan's Law, alongside rapists and child molesters.

The office of state Atty. Gen. Bill Lockyer said women should not be concerned about being identified as sex offenders, given that California law considers topless sunbathing to be indecent but not lewd. Lawmakers may soon be tackling the issue to remove any chance of misinterpretation by local prosecutors.

Before her idea reached Sacramento this week, Johnsson presented her arguments to more than 400 delegates at an October bar association convention. She flashed images on a screen of the big-breasted male evildoer from "Austin Powers: The Spy Who Shagged Me," as she spoke.

The issue goes beyond topless sunbathing. The conference lobbyist, Randy Perry with Aaron Read & Associates, questioned whether fraternity boys mooning out a car window or golfers caught urinating in the woods would also be required to register as sex offenders now, if convicted of indecent exposure.

"What we're talking about is common sense," said Perry.

[elfman2]

"I support this agenda only for women with well-shaped and well-toned breasts."

They’re best left “unsupported”.

[SilentServiceCPOWife]

Do you think that some women and/or gay men might see this guy's chest as an "erotic body part"? I'm not saying that I think that women should walk around topless (I certainly wouldn't), but the law should be fair. If women can't do it, then men shouldn't be able to do it either.

[ORECON]

Having been there several times, it is kind of a non-event. There are lots of pimply faced young guys and a few young women playing volleyball or Frisbee in the nude. Other than that it is usually families and older people.

After about ten minutes, the novelty wears off and it becomes blasé. It is always more fun watching the people in clothes that come out with the cameras and binoculars to see the nudes.

[freedumb2003]

I didnt know the "smileys" were DU style

Oh they are. Head over there and you will see those doggone things everywhere.

But the spirit of your original post is right on! :)

[elfman2]

" Do you think that some women and/or gay men might see this guy's chest as an "erotic body part"?"

Even if a similar number of people would find that exposed guy’s body parts erotic, few would find them so erotic that they’d feel embarrassed walking past him with their parents, children, boss etc. But an overwhelming majority in most communities would not want to meet up with a hot a topless woman in that company. In our society, for better or worse, beautiful topless women are too sexually charged for comfort in mixed company.

Decency laws are not based on an assumption that there’s equality of body parts between the sexes. That would be pushing a foreign community standard as a law's basis. In this case, that a male chest is just as overwhelmingly erotic as a female chest. And considering the difference between male and female sex drives and the nearly universal female role in civilizing that of the male, that claim’s very questionable.

[martin_fierro]

OH yeah. That kid's gonna have issues.

[martin_fierro]

I'm too sexy for my shirt.
Too sexy for my shirt.
So sexy it hurts.

[SilentServiceCPOWife]

Even if a similar number of people would find that exposed guy’s body parts erotic, few would find them so erotic that they’d feel embarrassed walking past him with their parents, children, boss etc. But an overwhelming majority in most communities would not want to meet up with a hot a topless woman in that company. In our society, for better or worse, beautiful topless women are too sexually charged for comfort in mixed company.

How can you say that with any certainty? I would be very uncomfortable to walk past that guy with my parents or daughter. I can think of any number of scenarios in which a female member of my family would be embarrassed to be in his presence if he were dressed as he is in the picture. If your average Joe were walking down the street shirtless, most women wouldn't give it a second thought. But this guy's body is screaming sex and women would respond to it.

Decency laws are not based on an assumption that there’s equality of body parts between the sexes. That would be pushing a foreign community standard as a law's basis.

I live in Chesapeake, VA which borders on Virginia Beach. Virginia Beach has an ordinance which doesn't allow men to be shirtless unless they are on the beach because they are trying to promote a family friendly environment in the resort area. Are they enforcing a "foreign community standard"?

[WFTR]

Instead of allowing topless sunbathing, the first priority should be putting some sanity into the Megan's Law guidelines. If misdemeanor public nudity puts a person on the list, then eventually the list will contain so many people who aren't really a threat that those who are a threat will be lost in the paperwork. Afterwards, people could decide whether some areas could be opened for topless sunbathing.

Bill

[Hodar]

FWIW, I’d personally like to see this opened up on beaches, but I respect others who don’t feel uncomfortable.

I'm pretty much the same way. I don't care if someone else does this; I don't think I'd want my kids to do it, but at the same time I do take issue with the 'criminal aspect' of this debate. "Indecent Exposure" is a pretty major charge for a pretty minor offense.

[elfman2]

" I can think of any number of scenarios in which a female member of my family would be embarrassed to be in his presence if he were dressed as he is in the picture."

Your relative would be embarrassed near him even on a beach or some other place where she might be in a swimsuit or wrap? I’m sure there are minority outlier personalities, but they go in both directions and their preferences are rarely going to be met by the community.

I’m sure that every healthy woman would recognize that he “screams sex”, but that alone is no different from his female equivalent in a halter top. What is different is that on a beach most women could pretend to ignore him and play cool in mixed company. But having a conversation that ignored his female topless equivalent (or even the average Jane topless) would be like ignoring an elephant in the living room. I’m sure standards would change somewhat over time, but a lot of families would avoid the beach, park etc… in the interim.

I lived in California for years before moving to Florida 4 years ago. One of the first things that stuck out was all the guys walking down neighborhood streets shirtless. I understand that it’s hotter here, but that kind of thing would just be considered low class redneck stuff in CA. My hat’s off to Chesapeake for trying to maintain a high standard, but I doubt that sex is the primary motivator.

[SunnySide]

"Do you think that some women and/or gay men might see this guy's chest as an "erotic body part"? "

IMO We've been trained and conditioned over decades(centuries) to view and react to certain parts of women and mens anatomy via societal accepted norms, print media marketing. Plus generally the (youthful)female chest has more curve, etc. that I am apt to believe that how us humans react to men and women is or could be an innate response like the sexaul phurmone(sp?) scent humans use to react to. It's already built into the human genetic coding.

[SilentServiceCPOWife]

Regarding the women in my family, we aren't Puritans, so it would not bother any of us to see that model shirtless on a beach. Context does make a difference.

It comes down to this for me. It would not cause a man any harm to have to wear a shirt in public and it would make the law fair.

By the way, I've enjoyed our discussion. It's quite apparent that we don't agree, but it's been nice to have a conversation that hasn't become rancorous.

[Dan from Michigan]

I wonder if the usual is true.....

The women who fight to go topless or go to topless beaches aren't the ones who you want to see topless in the first place.

It's a Rosie O'Donnell type, not Nicole Kidman.

[SilentServiceCPOWife]

I think that both are true. We do have instincts which compel us to find certain things about the opposite sex sexually appealing and we are also conditioned by the societies in which we live.

[MoochPooch]

"If it's legal for a man to walk around without a shirt; it should be legal for a woman to do the same."


Frankly, I don't think men should walk around without a shirt, either. But for a different reason.

[elfman2]

"It would not cause a man any harm to have to wear a shirt in public and it would make the law fair. "

When semi-attractive men everywhere can earn $1500 a night by taking that shirt off on stage, or have instant dates by letting that shirt fall open a little, everything will be fair. Until then I think we both have to take the good with the bad.

And if you don’t think shirts can cause harm to a man, you’ve never seen one with a farmer’s tan ;^)

Good talking with you too…

[SilentServiceCPOWife]

$1500 a night! I had no idea. It's too bad that there isn't a demand for short, 38 year old housewives with glasses because I might consider a career change. ;-)

[quietolong]

Maybe they cleaned Blacks beach up? Don’t sound like it.
Had some shipmates stop there once. And was told by other people that stopped there. That the Homo’s had taken it over. “ doing it on the beach” and other aberrant behavior.

There is a difference between a Nude beach and a bathing suit optional beach.

>>>> more fun watching the people in clothes that come out with the cameras and binoculars to see the nudes. <<<<

That is totally bad beach etiquette.

[elfman2]

You just need to lose the specks. Guys in those places only tip women they think aren’t smart enough to see that they're acting like drunken idiots.