Well, Eminem just lost my 16 bucks (Vanity)

[Bones75]

Well, over that last few years, I have pretty much started downloading all of my music off of P2P sites, because so many artist are such left wing whack jobs, that I refuse to support them financially but I still want to listen to their music.

The one last and final holdout whom I would always go and buy the CD was Eminem, because, and I believe this 100 percent, there is not another lyricst on the face of God's green Earth who can match his skills on the microphone. Nobody who has ever laid words over a beat can do it as good as he can. That's just the way it is.

But, and I'm sorry Em, you're still "the man" and all. But after this new anti-Bush song you put out ("Mosh"), from now on I'll be getting all your music free off P2P sites, and you'll not get another cent beyond the hundred or so bucks I have spent on you thus far, towards CD's and concerts and your 8-mile movie.

(Don't get me wrong, it was worth every cent)

Bitch about it all you want, but I'll be driving around in my car come November playing your new album, but the CD won't say "Eminem" on it.. it will say "Maxell.. 750mb/80min Capacity"

I am dissapointed, a guy with his intelligence and talent should know better. He is siding with the very same whiny little sissies that we so enjoyed watching him put to bed.

He should've stayed out out of politics, that's all I have to say. I have lost a bit of respect for him.

It's a shame to see such an incredibly talented artist side with such thoughtless morons.

Bones

[aft_lizard]

SO because the artist is a scummy liberal its alright to steal there music and STILL listen to him?

Sorry but if I didnt like somebody and there politics I would boycott them altogether, not even give them the satisfaction that there song is the number one stolen song, either way stealing is wrong.

And BTW you got our quotes backwards.

[Revolting cat!]

I think we're all a bit puzzled by your professed admiration for M&M considering your own musical talents and skills. I mean, who doesn't sympathize with the esteemed Roger Kimball who recently expressed outrage that a New York Times critic (this is not the leftist political editorial page of NYSlimes we're talking about,) would declare that the midget poseur who goes by the name of "Prince" is this century's Mozart! And here you are declaring M&M the greatest lyricist if not of all time then of this time. As compared to who? Give us a reference point. How many lyricist do you follow? Can you name who are considered (by informed listeners and critics) the best song lyricists today? How about the underrated ones? The Nashville hit factory has lyricists dime a dozen, some good, some great, many mediocre, then there are those rock, Broadway, cabaret song lyricists, so please name us some names to compare with this genius.

Here's a title that just randomly popped into my head (really.) By Jamie O'Hara? Who? That's right, "who".

 
Grandpa (Tell Me 'Bout The Good Old Days) 

Words and Music by Jamie O'Hara

Grandpa, tell me 'bout the good old days
Sometimes it feels like this worlds gone crazy
Grandpa, take me back to yesterday
When the line between right and wrong
Didn't seem so hazy

(Chorus)

Did lovers really fall in love to stay
And stand beside each other, come what may
Was a promise really something people kept
Not just something they would say
Did families really bow their heads to pray
Did daddies really never go away
Oh, grandpa, tell me 'bout the good old days

Grandpa, everything is changing fast
We call it progress, but I just don't know
And grandpa, Let's wander back into the past
And paint me the picture of long ago

(Repeat Chorus)

Did lovers really fall in love to stay
And stand beside each other come what may
Was a promise really something people kept
Not just something they would say and then forget
Did families really bow their heads to pray
Did daddies really never go away
Oh, grandpa, tell me 'bout the good old days
Oh, grandpa, tell me 'bout the good old days

[Bones75]

"SO because the artist is a scummy liberal its alright to steal there music and STILL listen to him?"

In a word. Yep. I mean no disprespect to you, I am just being honest. It doesn't faze me one bit.

"Sorry but if I didnt like somebody and there politics I would boycott them altogether"

If I did that, I'd have no music to listen to. Besides, my beliefs are strong, their lefty-ness bounces right off me.

"And BTW you got our quotes backwards."

Sorry about that, my appologies.

regards,

Bones

[Bones75]

"well M and M finally sold out.

he sold out to the establishment.

wha you say?

the establishment in the music industry is liberal. He used to poke fun at them all but now he seems to have jumped on the bandwagon.

mosh is M&M's britney spears bubble gum establishment introduction card."

Yes, that is correct. I still maintain that the best stuff he has ever done was not released on any of his albums, just underground and b-side stuff.

Bones

[Bones75]

"I think we're all a bit puzzled by your professed admiration for M&M considering your own musical talents and skills. I mean, who doesn't sympathize with the esteemed Roger Kimball who recently expressed outrage that a New York Times critic (this is not the leftist political editorial page of NYSlimes we're talking about,) would declare that the midget poseur who goes by the name of "Prince" is this century's Mozart! And here you are declaring M&M the greatest lyricist if not of all time then of this time. As compared to who?"

Perhaps I did not choose my words carefully enough, so your point is 100 percent valid.

I respect that fact that most people here do not think that rap is art, and are turned off by the subject matter. I will not try to covert those people. But rap, however, is indeed an art. It is the art of speaking words that rhyme over background beats meant to accent the rhyming. And yes it is a real talent. Especially freestyle. (Coming up with rhymes off the top of your head without having anything written, which there are even competitions for)

As far as that art form, I will gladly say that Em is the best there is of that genre. I did not intend to say that he is the greatest lyrical writer of all time. But as far as I am concerned lyric writers can even includes poets in a broader sense. Reading back, what I said reads that way, but what I state here is what I really meant to convey. Em is the best rapper that ever lived, to date.

Another point I need to make. Now I see that someone has posted the lyrics to his new song here in the thread. (Which I can't stand, btw) The following explanation applies less to this song and more to other instances of this situation.

And I notice that when a lot of people look at rap, they may read or repeat the lyrics, without ever having heard the song in situ, the way it was meant to be heard. Think about reading this phrase: "You're such a jerk"..

Now what does that mean, in writing? Me calling someone a jerk. But if you heard it spoken, it could be really angry."You're such a jerk!".. or it could be said jokingly.. like me goofing around with my best friend.. or it could be said sarcastically.. like you had done something really nice for me and I was jokingly thanking you, by making a sarcastic remark. Until you hear the intonation and vocalization, you really don't know what the song is about. Think about it.. if you read an essay describing a painting.. do you REALLY know what it looks like? If you read the lyrics, but have not heard the song, I am sorry but you really don't understand the meaning of those lyrics.. it could be total sarcasm for all you know. Bill O'Reilly does this all the time, and has no clue what he is talking about, he has even repeated lyrics as if the artist was saying them, but if you heard the song the artist is merely describing what was said to him as part of a story.

Marshal Mathers is truly gifted. His vocabulary and his use of it, his ability to fit words together in a way that is so slick, they fit together like Tetris pieces. I have a very old recording he did, I believe on a radio station, where a beat was played in the background, and Em was there, sounding VERY young (it's very old) and there are some other people who are blurting out random words, and Marshal then goes off rhyming using those words.. and in an INSTANT he has entire verses composed about the very situation he finds himself in. I am sorry but I do not thin many people can do that. It shows he was gifted at a young age.

Don't misunderstand his appeal, I, like many others do not like him for his vulgar lyrics are his fight with his mom, we like him IN SPITE of that, because his skills as a person who can creatively use the English language are unequaled in the genre. It doesn't matter what he raps about, if he raps about killing his mom, or if he raps about buttering his toast or tying his shoes, if he does it as WELL has he is able to, people will listen. I really don't think much of the people who just latch on the the violence and vulgarity. I think they are missing his real skill.

Also, about his trailer trash shtick. That is not just an act, and he is a person who truly raps about exactly what is going on in his life. Only the first album does he sound like that. In his second album he releases some anger about things that happened once he got famous and got some money. (so called "friends" crawling out of the woodwork who never gave a crap about him before, etc.

In his third album he rapped about his love for his daughter, and other things that are going on in his life at that point, such as his disputes with some other rappers. This new album will be no different. He is a man who truly speaks whatever is on his mind. The trailer park gig ceased when that ceased to be the life he lives. (except for the occasional joke about his past here and there)

I am not trying to make everyone like the guy, but don't read the lyrics to a single song and think you understand this man. His career and his collection of songs to date is VERY dynamic and VERY complex. You can really only grasp it all by sitting and listening to the albums sequentially. I bet you would find a lot you never knew was there.

So, Em, ya really pissed me off with this stupid song, but as long as you keep the music up the the level you've demonstrated, there will still be a place for you in my CD player.

Sorry for the long post, thanks for listening.

Bones

[Bones75]

I'm not sure he's fond of Kerry at all.

Bones

[Stakka Skynet]

"I believe this 100 percent, there is not another lyricst on the face of God's green Earth who can match his skills on the microphone."

You're nuts. Your mentality stems from the fact that you obviously haven't had much exposure to anything other than mainstream rap. Anyone from the Def Jux camp (Eyedea, Mr. Lif, Aesop Rock) as well as Del the Funky Homosapian would blow that little pansy out of the water (in terms of both lyrics and freestyle). These guys are real hip-hop.

[Bones75]

All of those guys you mentioned... especially Del... are good. (well the ones I have heard of, anyway)

I just think Em is better in my personal opinion. I fully respect your viewpoint though.

regards,

Bones

[beansox]

hes pandering for album sales. yes, he has sold out to the establishment and when this album sales half of what his last albums sold maybe hell figure it out.

to be honest, most people now days think of eminem as being soft..that he lost his edge from the fame and fortune... he has ran out of material and so instead of taking a vanguard approach like on albums past..he found himself jumping on the ABB bandwagon.. where he once percieved as a leader in the industry..he now seems to be the follower.

[Bones75]

I am not willing to discount your opinion.. or agree with it.. until the new album comes out.

I concede that you might be right.. but I will give this album a listen before I make my judgement.

Bones

[beansox]

well my borther who was the biggest M fan i knew of, who even started to emulate M... thinks hes soft now!! my brother was his "fan base" LOL!!! i used to agree with you that M was a lyrical genious!! his first cuts were phenominal...then came "lose it"... when i heard it the first time i got excited just cause M had new material out... then it kinda faded..and fast... most of it sounds sampled from his previous tracks which doesnt take much talent, imo. i am hugely dissappointed in the bush bashing song... i feel he is jumping on a bandwagon becuase bush bashin is envogue right now...and that is why i call him a follower.... i think he made a huge mistake with this one and i will not be purchasing it.

i post on other boards and have already had to endure DUmmies promoting the song and posting the lyrcis as if it will somehow garner votes for kerry... RIGHT!!! sure it will.. the 9th grade drop out drug user wife is in county vote!! LOL!!

[dfwgator]

i post on other boards and have already had to endure DUmmies promoting the song and posting the lyrcis

These are probably the same people who were boycotting him for his anti-gay lyrics.

[beansox]

so true!!

[beansox]

are you a prophet or something??? LOL!!


MOBY looks set to put his feud with EMINEM behind him, branding his anti-BUSH song and video "amazing" and urging his fans to watch it.

As previously reported, the video for ‘Mosh’ was leaked on the net earlier this week, and features the rapper mocking Bush and highly-political lyrics. In a message left on his website, Moby even directs fans to its location.

The message reads: "Wow, you know that Eminem and I have had our differences in the past, but this video is the best thing that I've seen all year. It's an amazing song and an even more amazing video. Please go watch."

The pair have feuded since Eminem took offence to Moby’s criticisms on the alleged homophobic nature of his lyrics in 2001.

Eminem responded by dissing him in his song ‘Without Me’.

[dfwgator]

Hee Hee, liberals are soooo predictable.

[Harmless Teddy Bear]

Rap may be art but rap is not music.

[beansox]

its bad to hate gays. its good to hate bush. typical libbie matra!

[Bones75]

That statment is neither true nor correct.

It's an opinion. It can't be stated as a *fact* any more than a person from Alaska and a person from FLorida being in the same room and the Florida person saying "it's cold in here."

Your statement is your opinion, and I do respect that. (Never thought rap would be an easy sell on FR, anyway) :-)

Best wishes, my friend.

Bones

P.S. Aren't all teddy bears harmless? ;-)

[Harmless Teddy Bear]

I am not putting down rap I am simply stating that it is not music.

For evidence I submit that you can not hum it. Music has a melody and sometimes a harmony. Rap lacks both and therefore is not music. Rhythmic chanting but not music.

[Bones75]

Would you consider, say, percussive drumming type music as "music"? I would.

Rap does indeed have melody and harmony, and percussions..

It's has a percussive beat and the bottom layers, then it will usually have a synth line, piano line, (repetitive thought it may be) or some other melody layed over the mass and drums, then then the rhyme often serves as the harmony, as (and you may not believe this) but most rappers rap on pitch. The songs have verses, choruses and often bridges, sometimes key changes.

There may also be samples, etc.. all of which has to blend for it to sound right.

The elements you say it lacks, are indeed present, though they make take a form you don't readily recognize, given your likely musical background.

There is good and bad in everything. Forgive me for the assumption, but I would venture the little bit of rap you've been exposed to has been crap. Most rap that is played on what I call the "kiddie media" (MTV, many FM stations) is crap. The real good stuff is rarely heard.

-Bones