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Basis of Christianity is bloodily sodden with hatred of the Jews (Leading Belfast journo on Passion)
The Belfast Telegraph ^ | 04 March 2004 | Eamonn McCann

Posted on 03/06/2004 8:17:26 AM PST by Joblie

MEL GIBSON says that his film, The Passion of the Christ, is a faithful representation of the biblical story of Jesus' trial and execution. He also says the movie isn't anti-Semitic. He cannot be right on both counts.

The New Testament is, among other things, an anti-Semitic tract. It is the source of the anti-Semitism which has characterised Christianity for two millennia.

If the film isn't anti-Semitic, it's out of line with the Gospel. In face of complaints from US Jewish leaders, Gibson removed from the film's sub-titles - although not from the Aramaic sound-track - the response of the Jews to Pilate's hand-washing disavowal of blame for sending Jesus to be crucified: "His blood be upon us and our children."

But why? The quote is there in Matthew 27:25. Its meaning is clear and has been fulfilled in unspeakable ways down the ages.

Luke 23:28-29 gives the same point a more vicious twist, depicting Jesus telling weeping women he encounters on the Way of the Cross: "Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not for me but for yourselves and your children. For behold, the days are coming when they will say, 'Blessed are the barren and the wombs that never bore, and the breasts that never gave suck!'"

Better for Jews that they'd never been born, then.

There's been no shortage of Christians ever since to ram this murderous message home to Jewish neighbours.

John's Gospel (8:44) has Jesus telling the Jews they are descended neither from God nor from Abraham but are children of the Devil.

The early Fathers of the Church took inspiration from the Bible as they preached hatred of the Jews.

In the works of Tertullian, Justin, John Chrysostom, etc., Jews are relentlessly libelled... the obscene Jew, the Satanic Jew, the murderer-of-God Jew, the whoremonger Jew, etc.

And so it continued. Pope after Pope, Council after Council, confirmed and codified the subhuman status of the Jews.

Every century is pock-marked by examples. (Council of Toledo, 694: Jews living in Spain declared slaves, possessions confiscated, all children removed from them at seven and prepared for marriage to Christians.)

Hitler didn't suck the idea of Jews wearing yellow badges out of his thumb. He took it from the Fourth Lateran Council of 1215.

The Nazi persecution can be seen as a practical expression of traditional Christian attitudes to Jews.

"From the beginning until the end of Hitler's rule, the bishops never tired of admonishing the faithful to accept his government," Guenter Lewy recalled in "The Catholic Church and Nazi Germany."

Individual Catholic clerics who opposed the Nazis' anti-Semitism were a tiny minority, totally unrepresentative.

Catholic apologists concede now that the Vatican and the German bishops should have given stronger, more courageous leadership.

But this is dodging the issue. One of the reasons they didn't is that, by and large, they agreed with the Nazis.

From its beginning, Protestantism was as bad. The editor of the Nazi hate-sheet "Der Sturmer," Julius Streich, cited Martin Luther, reasonably, in a plea of justification at Nuremberg.

In his disgusting treatise "On the Jews and their Lies" in 1543, Luther had called for the fire-bombing of synagogues, the demolition of Jewish homes, the silencing of rabbis, the banning of Jews from public places, the confiscation of Jewish property and the enslavement of "all strong young Jews and Jewesses."

Christian hymns provided the theme music for the Holocaust.

Even after the gates were flung open on the horrors of Auschwitz, Christian teachers, in Ireland as elsewhere, continued to instruct infants that the scattering of the Jews and the persecutions they endured were punishment for the killing of the Christ.

Argument over Gibson's blockbuster gore-fest diverts attention from what's important.

If the film fuels anti-Semitism, it's to be condemned, irrespective of its merits as a movie.

But let's not allow a satisfying controversy obscure the fact that the founding text of Christianity is bloodily sodden with hatred of Jews.


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To: TheDon
You really ought to use your talent another way. Your "Anyone know when the pogrom is on for?" incites inflammatory reaction. It is damaging to the credibility of FR as a serious forum. It is damaging to Christian interests.
81 posted on 03/06/2004 10:03:32 AM PST by Cboldt
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To: Miss Marple
"No religion can claim perfection in the behavior of all of its adherents."

This is a bunch of pap.

82 posted on 03/06/2004 10:08:40 AM PST by DestroytheDemocrats
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To: Miss Marple
Agnes Heep must have been forced to go to Sunday School as a child. Never got over it....
83 posted on 03/06/2004 10:08:43 AM PST by freebilly
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To: Just mythoughts
Weren't you on another thread yesterday preaching the evil deeds done by Catholics the past 2000 years?

So you think you are talking to the Lutherans today, who will be on your list tomorrow?

There must be a Methodist to his madness....

Sorry, I couldn't resist....

84 posted on 03/06/2004 10:11:13 AM PST by freebilly
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To: Miss Marple
If there were any common sense among those who are yelling "anti-Semite", they would turn their face away from America, and American (practicing) Christians, and turn it toward Europe and the internationalist Demodogs. Until they start to recognize where their real enemy is, I will pay no attention to their empty attacks.
85 posted on 03/06/2004 10:13:19 AM PST by AFPhys (My Passion review: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1089021/posts?page=13#13)
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To: Miss Marple
I am beginning to believe that this organized effort that started with the THEFT of Mel's script has deep roots.


Yesterday was a trashing of Catholics for their sins back over the past 2000 years.

Now we have research from the 1500 regarding Luther. Interesting thing my Bible does not quote Luther or Catholics.

I cannot help being reminded of what was demanded to be removed from Mel's movie is what seems to be happening to Christians. This is like an attempt to replay a drama again without having to say what this author plainly said.

Some are very much still ticked at Christ.
86 posted on 03/06/2004 10:14:27 AM PST by Just mythoughts
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To: freebilly
lollllll


I don't know much about those Methodists.... wonder if they have "fig" leaves hiding something.
87 posted on 03/06/2004 10:15:38 AM PST by Just mythoughts
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To: Joblie
The author is quite a character. Not at all afraid of controversy, and perhaps a provocateur. See below ...

If we had been able to point to an organised working class movement - the unions most importantly, and the Labour Party - with a clear record of fighting vigorously for an end to the oppression of Catholics, it might have been possible to point to the working class as the force which had the power to remedy the ills we were campaigning against.

But that wasn't the case. The realistic possibility we did have, and didn't take, was of recruiting relatively rapidly from the masses of angry, urgent working class youth whom we had helped bring onto the streets, and perhaps entering 1969 with a revolutionary socialist organisation a few hundred strong.

The task of building such an organisation remains.

Eamonn McCann: The roots of revolt (1988) <-- Link

88 posted on 03/06/2004 10:15:57 AM PST by Cboldt
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To: DestroytheDemocrats
Just out of curiosity, why are you so upset with Christians in 2004? Do you really believe that we will begin attacking Jews?
Have any Freepers made any remarks calling for the death of Jews, the destruction of their synagogues, the confiscation of their property?
89 posted on 03/06/2004 10:16:38 AM PST by freebilly
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To: Joblie
The New Testament is, among other things, an anti-Semitic tract. It is the source of the anti-Semitism which has characterised Christianity for two millennia…

So what inspired anti Semitism before Christ?

Luke 23:28-29 gives the same point a more vicious twist, depicting Jesus telling weeping women he encounters on the Way of the Cross: "Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not for me but for yourselves and your children. For behold, the days are coming when they will say, 'Blessed are the barren and the wombs that never bore, and the breasts that never gave suck!...'"

Seems to me Christ is speaking to those present, Jews, about the coming universal curse of socialism that despises the burden of children on sexual hedonists.

John's Gospel (8:44) has Jesus telling the Jews they are descended neither from God nor from Abraham but are children of the Devil…

Figurative speech should never be taken literally. Strange, that a non believer uses it to make his point. Well maybe not.

The early Fathers of the Church took inspiration from the Bible as they preached hatred of the Jews….

For the first three hundred years they are being thrown to the lions. Christians were hardly in a position to effect brutality on anyone. They preached against it. It was the pagans and Platonic, sexual hedonists who hated the Christians as they (the Christians) believed in Jewish law that set God above all. This irked the Platonists to no end as they thought the statist elites should have the final authority. This is the real anti Semitism.

Hitler didn't suck the idea of Jews wearing yellow badges out of his thumb. He took it from the Fourth Lateran Council of 1215.

The Nazi persecution can be seen as a practical expression of traditional Christian attitudes to Jews.

Actually, Hitler learned more from the Muslims. From the Turks he learned Genocide. From the Mufti of Jerusalem, he got spiritual support to kill the Jews.

But let's not allow a satisfying controversy obscure the fact that the founding text of Christianity is bloodily sodden with hatred of Jews.

Ahh. This all sounds like babble from a failed socialist writer living in a pub.

90 posted on 03/06/2004 10:17:54 AM PST by LoneRangerMassachusetts
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To: Just mythoughts
"Individual Catholic clerics who opposed the Nazis' anti-Semitism were a tiny minority, totally unrepresentative. "

True.

91 posted on 03/06/2004 10:21:00 AM PST by DestroytheDemocrats
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To: Joblie
It is the source of the anti-Semitism which has characterised Christianity for two millennia.

This is what gauls me
As if any antisemitism in this coutry has to be because of what happened to Christ

A factor couldn't posssibly be that the majority of Jews are left wing liberals and in the forefront of attacking Christian traditions in this country

PLEASE NOTE I said MAJORITY not ALL

And I am an Agnostic
92 posted on 03/06/2004 10:21:37 AM PST by uncbob
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To: Joblie
But let's not allow a satisfying controversy obscure the fact that the founding text of Christianity is bloodily sodden with hatred of Jews.

The record disputes that.

20 Some of them, however, men from Cyprus and Cyrene, went to Antioch and began to speak to Greeks also, telling them the good news about the Lord Jesus.
21 The Lord's hand was with them, and a great number of people believed and turned to the Lord.
22 News of this reached the ears of the church at Jerusalem, and they sent Barnabas to Antioch.
23 When he arrived and saw the evidence of the grace of God, he was glad and encouraged them all to remain true to the Lord with all their hearts.
24 He was a good man, full of the Holy Spirit and faith, and a great number of people were brought to the Lord.
25 Then Barnabas went to Tarsus to look for Saul,
26 and when he found him, he brought him to Antioch. So for a whole year Barnabas and Saul met with the church and taught great numbers of people. The disciples were called Christians first at Antioch.
27 During this time some prophets came down from Jerusalem to Antioch.
28 One of them, named Agabus, stood up and through the Spirit predicted that a severe famine would spread over the entire Roman world. (This happened during the reign of Claudius.)
29 The disciples, (this would be the ones in Antioch. Those horrible, mean Jew hating Gentile Christians) each according to his ability, decided to provide help for the brothers living in Judea. ( that would be JEWISH Christians)
30 This they did, sending their gift to the elders by Barnabas and Saul.

Acts 11:20-27

Oh the hate! I mean, what kind of evil bunch would take up a collection to feed their starving brethren? Shouldn’t they have, at the very least, left them to starve if not gone and snatched the food right out of their mouths?

93 posted on 03/06/2004 10:23:30 AM PST by Harmless Teddy Bear (Proudly out of step with the majority since 1973)
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To: Joblie
Christianity has come a long way since the Reformation. Christianity today is no longer a tool for brutality and persecution - the Christian world is civilized and can peacefully co-exist with its non-Christian neighbors. Now, besides Judaism, which other of the major world religions could truthfully make the same claim?
94 posted on 03/06/2004 10:24:51 AM PST by thoughtomator (Political Correctness is fascism)
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To: Miss Marple
Unlike the Krauthammer article, I think the author of this article has more of a political agenda. Check the link in the message above ... http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1092085/posts?page=88#88
95 posted on 03/06/2004 10:27:39 AM PST by Cboldt
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To: Just mythoughts
"The editor of the Nazi hate-sheet "Der Sturmer," Julius Streich, cited Martin Luther, reasonably, in a plea of justification at Nuremberg. "

True.

96 posted on 03/06/2004 10:30:02 AM PST by DestroytheDemocrats
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To: DestroytheDemocrats
""Individual Catholic clerics who opposed the Nazis' anti-Semitism were a tiny minority, totally unrepresentative. "
True."


Your agenda is showing. I am not a Catholic, so I have no idea what you are talking about, not a Lutheran either....


I am Christian and it is Chirst you have a bone to pick with but you don't have the courage to take him on with his own WORDS. By the way you will have to start in Genesis, the beginning to take Christ on.

YOu know very well that we Christians are sinners, yet you also know that Christ never sinned.

YOU make the choice and nobody can force you to love Christ so do not fret or fear.
97 posted on 03/06/2004 10:34:02 AM PST by Just mythoughts
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To: Just mythoughts
"But let's not allow a satisfying controversy obscure the fact that the founding text of Christianity is bloodily sodden with hatred of Jews."

Disagree. It is a misreading and abuse of the texts, much of it by Christians, that have contributed in large measure to the persecttion of Jews.

98 posted on 03/06/2004 10:34:53 AM PST by DestroytheDemocrats
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To: Joblie
Eamonn Mccann was part of the Bloody Sunday march in Belfast in 1972. He's been a well known Marxist ever since.
99 posted on 03/06/2004 10:37:16 AM PST by GunRunner
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To: DestroytheDemocrats
"But let's not allow a satisfying controversy obscure the fact that the founding text of Christianity is bloodily sodden with hatred of Jews."
Disagree. It is a misreading and abuse of the texts, much of it by Christians, that have contributed in large measure to the persecttion of Jews."

Then if the problem is misreading and abuse of the texts then why don't you spend your time in pointing out the misreadings and abuse from the original so then you can set us straight. Start in Genesis with that word "touch".
100 posted on 03/06/2004 10:38:21 AM PST by Just mythoughts
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