Realism or brutality – has

NY Daily News ^ | February 18, 2004 | TAMER EL-GHOBASHY and CORKY SIEMASZKO

[presidio9]

Mel Gibson's controversial new movie "The Passion of the Christ" was igniting plenty of passion yesterday - even though opening night was still a week away. First Lady Laura Bush said she was looking forward to watching the R-rated film about the Crucifixion of Christ.

"I think it sounds very interesting, and I'd like to see it," the First Lady told reporters while visiting a high school in Bentonville, Ark.

But lots of others weren't so sure.

Gibson's story of the torture of Christ isn't just brutal, it's an exercise in cinematic sadism that opens on Ash Wednesday (Feb. 25) at 18 theaters across the city and 2,000 more throughout the country.

And that left many New Yorkers interviewed by the Daily News wondering whether the one-time "Lethal Weapon" star took the violence too far in his portrayal of "The Passion of the Christ."

They joined a chorus of other critics who fear the movie unfairly scapegoats Jews and who accuse Gibson of straying from the Gospels.

For many parents - even churchgoing parents who don't quibble with Gibson's interpretation of the Gospels - the violence might be too much for their kids.

"I don't think my children would get it," said Debbie Sparber, 45, of Manhattan, a Christian whose kids are 12 and 9. "They'd misunderstand what they're seeing."

Richard D'Alessandro, 45, a Manhattan-based actor who has appeared on violent shows like "The Sopranos," said there's no way he'll take his 9-year-old, Giancarlo, to the film.

"Violence is violence, no matter what the subject matter," said D'Alessandro, who is a Catholic. "For whatever religious value this film may have, the violence makes it out of the question."

Despite the blood and gore, many religious groups such as the New York-based Catholic League have already prepurchased thousands of tickets - virtually assuring Gibson will recoup the $25 million he sank into making the movie.

That Gibson's "Passion" is expected to do boffo at the box office is all the more remarkable because six months ago he was struggling to find a distributor.

True believers like Jurema Farr, 41, of Sparta, N.J., said Gibson's recounting of Christ's last 12 hours alive is something her three kids need to see - even if it sickens them.

"They need to know and learn about what happened to Jesus Christ," said Farr, her 8-year-old, Ulysees, and 6-year-old, Orion, in tow. "You have to show your kids the truth, even if it's violent."

Dr. Alan Hilfer, a child psychologist at Maimonides Medical Center in Brooklyn, disagreed. He said kids that age aren't ready for that kind of graphic violence.

"I have seen some of the clips, and it was pretty gruesome," he said. "This is not cartoon violence."

But Manhattan psychiatrist Wayne Myers said "kids from religious families are already programmed to believe in this, and their parents will explain this as this is our Lord suffering."

In an interview with ABC's Diane Sawyer, Gibson admitted he pumped up the violence because he wanted to push the viewer "over the edge." He said he wanted viewers to feel "the enormity of Christ's sacrifice."

Gibson also denied the movie is anti-Semitic, but has resisted requests by Jewish groups to add a postscript to the movie reminding viewers that it was the Romans, not the Jews, who ultimately crucified Christ.

Abraham Foxman of the Anti-Defamation League asked Pope John Paul yesterday to tell his flock that Gibson's controversial movie is not the gospel truth.

"It's Mel Gibson's version of the Gospel, it's Mel's gospel," he said.

Joseph Starrs of American Life League's Crusade for the Defense of our Catholic Church, said Gibson is true to the New Testament.

"This film is many things, but it is not anti-Semitic," he said. "If this film were, then the Gospel itself must be, because it is on this indisputable truth of the Gospels that the movie is based."

[presidio9]

Nah. Plenty of presidio9's threads got moved to chat that I wasn't on.

No, but you could have been.

That's the point.

[Sam's Army]

Nah. Plenty of presidio9's threads got moved to chat that I wasn't on.

So you deny it?!?!?!?! I think we have a story now.

[NeoCaveman]

"What? You would not have me spare your king?"

The Crowd, who has now been replaced with Canadians as not to offend the ADL repsonds, "Hose the hoser"

[general_re]

SPECIAL PROSECUTOR APPOINTED IN OPINION SCANDAL
Vows To Investigate "Chat" Thread-Lazamataz Connection

[presidio9]

Don't you see what's going on here? He's trying to deflect blame. Do a "Find in Forum" on him. I bet he's busy hijacking another thread even as you read this!

[Sam's Army]

Intelligence + free time = thread hijackings. I move to allow firearms in the posting-box.

[Lazamataz]

SPECIAL PROSECUTOR APPOINTED IN OPINION SCANDAL
Vows To Investigate "Chat" Thread-Lazamataz Connection

The bitch set me up.

[Lazamataz]

Don't you see what's going on here? He's trying to deflect blame.

Look presidio, you don't know what it's like -- I'm the one out there every day putting his a&& on the line. And I'm not out of order! You're out of order! The whole freakin' system is out of order! You want the truth? You want the truth?! You can't HANDLE the truth! 'Cause when you reach over and put your hand into a pile of goo that was your best friend's face, you'll know what to do! Forget it, presidio, it's Chinatown!

[cwb]

Great article. Do you happen to have link for it. Thanks

[presidio9]

Look presidio

I'd appreciate it if you would address me as "Colonel" or "Sir".

I believe I've earned it.

[Lazamataz]

JUDGE RANDOLPH - "Defense counsel will address the witness as Colonel or Sir."

[af_vet_1981]

How's this do for you? These are people who have actually seen the movie, and most are very familiar with the historical Jesus as presented in the Bible. Okay, Matt Drudge and Jack Valenti may not make the cut on that point. I did not say I had seen the movie. But I know people who have, and they say it is the stunning movie they have ever viewed.

Those quotes are fine by me. The quote I had trouble with was yours.

[presidio9]

That's more like it.

NOW WHERE WERE WE???

[Lazamataz]

Son, we live in a world that has walls. And those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You? You, general_re? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for presidio9 and you
curse the marines. You have that luxury. You have the
luxury of not knowing what I know: That presidio9's chat-death, while tragic, probably saved lives. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives.

You don't want the truth. Because deep down, in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall. You need me there.

We use words like honor, code, loyalty...we use these words as the backbone to a life spent defending something. You use 'em as a punchline.

I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide, then questions the manner in which I provide it. I'd prefer you just said thank you and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you're entitled to.

[cwb]

"The Patriot" wasn't a Mel Gibson production (Emmerich). It is interesting, however, that this movie was also attacked by some on the Left for it's "pro-American" and pro-gun violence.

[af_vet_1981]

I haven't seen the movie, but the book is very good.

The movie will be an excellent tool for evangelism. The movie will have a very powerful emotional effect on viewers. The new converts will have believed the movie. You can assume they will read the book afterward but the movie will form the foundation of what they believe about the book.

A picture is worth a thousand words."

Isn't it ?

[bereanway]

Belief is the driving force behind the movie. No one else who was (or wasn't) crucified changed the course of history so dramatically. History also attests to the fact that it was a willing sacrafice.

[sarasota]

You have waffled. You shall have to answer for this.

[af_vet_1981]

should the Jewish people of Jesus's day

The Jews of Yeshua's day were under Roman occupation. The Roman Empire poured all its malice, cruelty and desire to dominate all life into the Empire. Opponents were sold into slavery, tortured, crucified, you name it. The best you can say about the Roman Empire is that they did not kill all those who believed in the G-d of Israel.

[MainFrame65]

I agree. Gibson makes no claim to have filmed a "fifth gospel." What he does claim is that his film is consonant with the four gospels that were his reference and inspiration, and that it represents his view and interpretation of events described therein.

Questions of historical accuracy that do not arise directly and EXCLUSIVELY from those gospels are simply not valid, and do not deserve consideration as criticism of the film. To unbelievers, this is little different from warp drive, time travel, alien invasion, or other fantasies. You either suspend disbelief and appreciate what is presented for its entertainment or illustrative value, or call it balderdash and walk out.

But we can learn a great deal from stories, because the imagination is perhaps the greatest laboratory for human ideas, thought, and interaction that has been exploited since ancient times by great authors. So whether you consider the gospels to be fiction, fact, or somewhere in between (another ancient writing technique,) they remain "the greatest story ever told", and certainly worthy of exposition.

I am Jewish, so I will see this film from a different point of view than most of the others on this thread. But I look forward to it as an honest, if personal, exposition of the basis of Christian belief. If it manages that it will be a monumental achievement.