Posted on 08/06/2025 8:24:29 AM PDT by whyilovetexas111
Eighty years after the atomic bombing of Hiroshima, this analysis explores Operation Downfall, the massive Allied invasion of Japan that was averted by Tokyo’s surrender. The two-stage plan, Operations Olympic and Coronet, would have involved more than twice the forces of the Normandy landings and was expected to be unimaginably costly.
(Excerpt) Read more at nationalsecurityjournal.org ...
Just keep a naval blockade around the islands and starve them until they decide to surrender.
If they hadn’t surrendered we would’ve tested a third bomb.
I’m not sure what they would’ve called it. After fat-man and little-boy, maybe corn-fed-girl would work.
I have no problem w/dropping the big ones on them. The best thing about it was that it wound up inspiring the Godzilla franchise.
The initial radiation sickness, due to intense gamma radiation from the blast itself, was devastating, causing many deaths for about 6-8 weeks. Since it was an air burst there was relatively little fallout lingering around to cause cancer in the long term.
If Truman had ordered an invasion instead of using our atomic bombs and hundreds of thousands of American soldiers had died, when the public found out that we had atomic bombs but decided not to use them, Truman would have been impeached, removed from office, and charged with treason.
Supposedly there were back door negotiations to end the war and thereby allow Japan to save face. Had that happened there would be no invasion and no bombs. Negotiations would not have settled the issue. It would have only offered a pause until the next round of fighting starts. Just look at Korea.
It’s the same as a legal settlement where no one admits guilt when everyone knows who the guilty are. Japan was very guilty.
Side note: Russia and Japan have never signed a WW2 Peace Agreement. Technically still at war ( some say).
Japan did not surrender when we dropped an atomic bomb on them. Japan did not surrender when we dropped a second atomic bomb on them. Japan only surrendered because we convinced them that we would continue to drop atomic bombs on then until they surrendered.
In fact, we had used up all of the atom bombs that we had. If Japan had known, they would not have surrendered for several more weeks or months, when we were able to make some more and start dropping them on Japan again.
I wouldn’t be alive if the US hadn’t dropped the bomb.
In fact, we had used up all of the atom bombs that we had.
It might have been a bit difficult to reconcile that approach with that whole “Unconditional Surrender” resolution.
The choices were:
1. Negotiate surrender. This would have been a half victory and would have included the Russians.
2. Blockade. This was already happening and it would have taken years and millions of deaths by starvation until capitulation. The Russian gains in Asia would have been significant.
3. Bomb them into oblivion. This was pretty much already accomplished. By the summer of 1945 more aircraft were being lost as they were ferried to the Pacific than we being shot down over Japan. There was simply nothing of significance to bomb.
4. Invasion. The Japanese would resist to a degree we had only begun to understand at Okinawa and Iwo. Again, millions of Japanese and American lives would be lost.
5. Drop the bombs. This killed a significant number of civilians. But nothing like the Japanese deaths from the above options. No Americans would be killed. The Russians would be stopped where they stood. Plus it saved the Americans from devastating economic impact of losing nearly a million more men; draining our country of resources, and an inability to help Europe recover.
The cold hard math of the problem is obvious. They are ALL bad solutions. Dropping the bomb was the least bad.
There was an attempted military coup trying to stop the surrender.
The Kyūjō incident was a failed military coup attempt in Japan on the night of August 14-15, 1945, organized by Major Kenji Hatanaka and other officers to prevent the Emperor's broadcast announcing Japan's surrender in World War II. The conspirators occupied the Imperial Palace, sealed off communications, and attempted to find and destroy the recording of the surrender speech.
Yes,
There are two radiation effects.
Initial radiation sickness, caused by short mega doses of radiation, which is quite deadly.
Then there are long term effects, lingering from exposure to medium doses of radiation. These effects are quite overestimated, as the bodies have ability to recover, which is not taken in account by overly conservative assessments.
Good arguments are made that we actually need some low level radiation exposure. Places with high level of natural radiation are usually healthy spas, with low number of cancers, a lot better than places with very low natural radiation levels.
But the population is hysterical about radiation exposure, fed by media and the “invisible dead rays” scare.
You sure live in a fantasy world.
With what?
You got that right
“That tells me it probably wasn’t the totally all-consuming nightmare we’ve been told it was for the past half decade”
You have to get a basic understanding of the Japanese mindset to know why they didn’t make the decision until after we did it again displaying we could do it a lot more. These were the same people that were so set on dying for their country that they did it themselves (kamikaze). It wasn’t until after the second one and determining the fact that they could not win and would be devastated, they finally gave up the war.
wy69
An invasion would have been as stupid and needless as to invade the likes of Pelileu when the troops of that garrison could have just as easily been starved out of existence. Had we followed the ideas of others and cut off oil supplies from the likes of Borneo early then cut off raw materials Japan and Japanese would have starved to death. All it would have taken was time but we were tired of war and anxious to end it even at known high costs. There was also the motive to end it before Russia joined it and did their usual to create a bigger problem out of anything they touch.
Okinawa and other islands were a costly contingency taken if the bomb had not been successful. Few knew they were actually a contingency at the time of the battles.
There were reasons and great ones to end the war quickly and drop the bombs and as many as it might take. We saved more Japanese lives by dropping the bombs than we and they would have lost if we had invaded Japan.
But IMHO that makes my point. The U.S. was dealing with an enemy who not only started the war by attacking us (Pearl Harbor), attacked other military homeland targets (Alaskan islands, Ellwood), and even civilian targets like trying to set our woods on fire (Fu-Go balloon bombs). That same enemy had made it clear, as you correctly pointed out, that they were going to be hard to change their minds and give up fighting us. Thus, the U.S. had no option but to HIT VERY HARD. How hard? However hard it took to force Japan to surrender. If not even the 1st A-bomb was enough to learn 'em, darn 'em, that's their problem, not ours.
It really is that simple. The enemy's mindset, not the mindset of the perhaps more compassionate nation that was attacked, is the mindset that determines how hard you have to hit 'em.
“The enemy’s mindset...”
I think Okinawa showed us what an attack on Japan would result in. Jap soldiers fighting a losing battle to the very end and civilians killing themselves so as not to fall into the hands of the white devil that would rape and torture them (at least that’s what their propaganda told them).
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