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Why Firing a Handgun or Spraying Bear Spray Matters
AmmoLand ^ | July 4, 2024 | Dean Weingarten

Posted on 07/10/2024 4:58:00 AM PDT by marktwain

In 2008, bear spray received a large boost with the publication of the paper on the “Efficacy of Bear Deterrent Spray” by Smith and Herrero. The paper considered 83 incidents, of which 72 incidents were scored for effect where bears were sprayed. The eleven other incidents did not involve bears being sprayed. The authors judged bear spray to be 92% effective. 25(35%) of the scored incidents involved aggressive bears. 10 of the aggressive bears charged (14% of the incidents). 21(29%) of the 72 incidents involved park personnel targeting bears. The percentage of aggressive bears that were deterred was not mentioned. While 92% seems high, the authors were not content. They created a sound bite, which was intensely magnified by the media. From the Efficacy of Bear Deterrent Spray in Alaska:

Although bear spray was 92% effective by our definition of success, it is important to note that 98% of persons carrying it were uninjured after a close encounter with bears.

Consider the above statement.  The sentence separates carrying bear spray from using bear spray. 175 people were reported as “carrying bear spray.” Only 71 bears were sprayed. How many bears were sprayed by multiple people was not reported.  The vast majority of close encounters with bears do not result in humans being injured, whether they are unarmed or carry firearms or bear spray.  No one seriously suggests more than 1 or 2 percent of close encounters with bears involve injury to a human. The number is likely much less than 1 percent. Many articles about bear spray jumped to the claim bear spray was 98% effective in deterring bears.

The 98% is from carrying bear spray, not from spraying bears. The article reports there were 72 incidents where people sprayed bears for hazing and/or defensive purposes.


(Excerpt) Read more at ammoland.com ...


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: banglist; bearrepublic; bears; bearspray; bearsrepeating; defense; handgun; thingsiworryabout; unbearable
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Tom Smith, one of the authors of the bear spray and firearms papers, says the papers were never meant to be compared, then proceeds to compare them. Somehow, in the bear spray paper, the number of incidents drops from 72 to 71. It is not explained.
1 posted on 07/10/2024 4:58:00 AM PDT by marktwain
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To: marktwain

Given the choice of a properly sized hand gun and spray, I’d pick the gun any day. I do not trust chemical deterrents, especially when lives are at stake.


2 posted on 07/10/2024 5:04:55 AM PDT by redfreedom (Joseph Stalin: "It does not mater how anyone votes, how votes are counted is what matters.")
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To: marktwain

What is with the ammoland obsession with bears?

I’ve had numerous encounters with bears and, excepting a fishing trip to Canada, never had reason to be concerned, and if a bear wanted to take on 5 guys with larger pistols and a guide with a rifle, good luck to him.

Bear growled and thought better of his chances and took off at a gallop with nary a shot fired.


3 posted on 07/10/2024 5:17:10 AM PDT by MeanWestTexan (Sometimes There Is No Lesser Of Two Evils)
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To: marktwain

A slug in the heart, or through the mouth, does a pretty good job of stopping a bear, but it has to be a big enough slug with enough power behind it to burst through bone and viscera.

If it is not a kill shot with a bear, the game goes on for FAR too long.


4 posted on 07/10/2024 5:20:37 AM PDT by alloysteel (Most people slog through life without ever knowing the wonders of true insanity.)
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To: marktwain

“There are two things to do to stay safe from bears: Always carry pepper spray, and learn to recognize bear scat.”

“How do you recognize bear scat?”

“It smells like pepper.”


5 posted on 07/10/2024 5:32:46 AM PDT by dangus
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To: MeanWestTexan
Do you actually go to AmmoLand?

The bear articles are just one of many series on AmmoLand.

They are about .2% of the article published on AmmoLand.

6 posted on 07/10/2024 5:38:00 AM PDT by marktwain (The Republic is at risk. Resistance to the Democratic Party is Resistance to Tyranny. )
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To: marktwain

And even fewer of those involved spraying an aggressive bear. It looks like most of the incidents involved running the bears out of trash cans.


7 posted on 07/10/2024 6:04:08 AM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (Gender dysphoria is now a federally protected mental illness.)
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To: MeanWestTexan
Discussion of firearms for protection from bears - good discussion.

Discussion of firearm for protection from criminals - how dare you!?!?!?!? You're sick. You're a gun nut. Guns kill people. You shouldn't be allowed to have a gun. We need more red flag laws. You're showing intent to kill people. People don't need guns because police have guns.

8 posted on 07/10/2024 6:06:03 AM PDT by T.B. Yoits
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To: marktwain; kanawa

Bear spray on a hungry bear just makes them ugly. It will not stop them.

But then, these idjits do not know bears.They ascribe human cgaracterustics to bears subconsciously.

Bears are like an alien life form. They have no hesittation to eat.They are driven. A human is just a skin bag full of meat to a bear.

Thank goodness we have 12 guage shotguns loaded with rifled slugs and OO buck.


9 posted on 07/10/2024 6:17:56 AM PDT by Candor7 (Ask not for whom the Trump Trolls,He trolls for thee!),<img src="" width=500</img><a href="">tag</a>)
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To: MeanWestTexan

Fending off the apex predator has long been the wet dream of gun nuts, since the days of pulp stories of TR. it’s a primal memory, if that sort of thing is to be believed.

Being a gun nut myself, these bear fantasies are at least palatable, if also juvenile. They not nearly as disturbing as the ‘home defenders’ that literally just want to kill someone.


10 posted on 07/10/2024 6:31:10 AM PDT by larrytown (A Cadet will not lie, cheat, steal, or tolerate those who do. Then they graduate...)
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To: T.B. Yoits
Discussion of firearms for protection from bears - good discussion.

Good point. I believe it is one of the reasons the left was so accepting of bear spray as "better than guns".

11 posted on 07/10/2024 6:38:31 AM PDT by marktwain (The Republic is at risk. Resistance to the Democratic Party is Resistance to Tyranny. )
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To: marktwain
The bear articles are just one of many series on AmmoLand. They are about .2% of the article published on AmmoLand.

Then how about posting some of the other content. The 'bear' material has been retreaded almost every couple of weeks. If you go back and look at the articles for the last several years, they even use the exact same words over and over again.

Many readers are interested in how various handgun calibers have performed in defense against bears. This is a complicated subject. Sometimes, any caliber will do. Sometimes, a level of power may be required. Sometimes, a level of accuracy or speed may be required. Many permutations exist. The most important aspect is to have a firearm available, easily and quickly accessible. The specific caliber is less important.

No kidding Sherlock. Seriously, a few words get moved around but these words are reprinted in every article.

12 posted on 07/10/2024 6:42:18 AM PDT by Magnum44 (...against all enemies, foreign and domestic... )
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To: redfreedom

The makers of pepper spray are pretty quiet about using it against the wind.


13 posted on 07/10/2024 6:49:55 AM PDT by T.B. Yoits
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To: MeanWestTexan
What is with the ammoland obsession with bears?

I think Dean Weingarten, the author, was molested by a bear as a child...

14 posted on 07/10/2024 6:51:13 AM PDT by Magnum44 (...against all enemies, foreign and domestic... )
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To: T.B. Yoits

Pepper spray is a lefty’s combined effort against guns and the favoring of animal rights.

Yes, against the wind - in such a case what’s more effective, the spray, calling 911 or throwing rocks? A good lefty will have the answer and it will not be a gun.

A few years back some loons went into Yellowstone and were allowed to live with grizzlies. The bears had lunch.


15 posted on 07/10/2024 6:58:22 AM PDT by redfreedom (Joseph Stalin: "It does not mater how anyone votes, how votes are counted is what matters.")
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To: MeanWestTexan; marktwain

The topic of defense against bears has been heavily debated in the firearms/hunting community for decades. A lot of ink has been shed, a lot of angry words have been exchanged, but facts and logical analysis have been generally lacking.

I, at least, am glad to see this deplorable situation rectified.


16 posted on 07/10/2024 6:59:53 AM PDT by NorthMountain (... the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed)
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To: Magnum44
As posted by Magunm44:

Then how about posting some of the other content. The 'bear' material has been retreaded almost every couple of weeks. If you go back and look at the articles for the last several years, they even use the exact same words over and over again. Many readers are interested in how various handgun calibers have performed in defense against bears. This is a complicated subject. Sometimes, any caliber will do. Sometimes, a level of power may be required. Sometimes, a level of accuracy or speed may be required. Many permutations exist. The most important aspect is to have a firearm available, easily and quickly accessible. The specific caliber is less important.

Those words are used because they are part of the series which explores how various calibers have functioned in defense against bears.

They identify the articles as part of the series, of which there have been six posted on freerepublic, all posted since May 10, 2024, or over the last two months.

Please show where those words, as claimed, have been posted during the last "several years".

17 posted on 07/10/2024 7:08:51 AM PDT by marktwain (The Republic is at risk. Resistance to the Democratic Party is Resistance to Tyranny. )
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To: marktwain

I’m not here to do your research. Do a search on bear in the title yourself. I am not trying to attack you personally, and I am not going to get in a heated argument and waste either of our time over this. I simply said if this is 2% of ammoland, how about posting something from the other 98% for a change.

I love a good gun thread. This is tired material, and years its been repeatedly posted almost as far back as I can remember, and I’ve been here 20 years.


18 posted on 07/10/2024 7:14:43 AM PDT by Magnum44 (...against all enemies, foreign and domestic... )
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To: Magnum44
I’m not here to do your research. Do a search on bear in the title yourself. I am not trying to attack you personally, and I am not going to get in a heated argument and waste either of our time over this. I simply said if this is 2% of ammoland, how about posting something from the other 98% for a change.

You, Magnum44, are the one who made the claim that the words mentioned were repeated over years on freerepublic. It is your responsibility to back up your claim.

No one said the bear articles were 2% of AmmoLand content. It was said they are .2% of AmmoLand content, an order of magnitude difference.

When a person makes a claim about a matter of fact, the onus of documenting the claim falls on the person making the claim.

I am not attacking you personally. I am disputing your claim of fact, which is incorrect.

You have no responsibility to read articles which have been posted. It is a long tradition on freerepublic to post about articles without reading them.

19 posted on 07/10/2024 8:14:38 AM PDT by marktwain (The Republic is at risk. Resistance to the Democratic Party is Resistance to Tyranny. )
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To: marktwain

Whatever.


20 posted on 07/10/2024 8:19:24 AM PDT by Magnum44 (...against all enemies, foreign and domestic... )
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