Survey: Young Germans Prefer China Over The U.S.

Legal Insurrection ^ | May 21, 2020 | Vijeta Uniyal

[CheshireTheCat]

If you believe a new survey, Germans are turning to China in the wake of the Wuhan coronavirus pandemic.

“Germans view the United States less positively since the outbreak of the coronavirus crisis while their attitudes toward China have improved,” the German public broadcaster DW News reported citing the survey. The broadcaster added that “73% stated that their opinion about the United States had deteriorated due to the current health crisis caused by the novel coronavirus,” compared to only 36 percent who looked more unfavorably towards China since the outbreak. “Coronavirus turns Germans more critical of US,” the DW News concluded.

Overall, thirty-six percent of Germans want their country to have closer ties with China, as opposed to 37 percent who still prefer the United States. But the pro-China sentiment was much higher among young Germans.

[Berlin_Freeper]

I am American and I don’t get your love/hate thing.
According to you, USA loves their abuser.

[BroJoeK]

"Let Germany defend itself and prop up the EU, I’ve must stop supporting them thru defense spending."

Germany is surrounded by friendly countries and so spends a miniscule % of GDP on defense.
Even so, they spend only $13 billion less than their only potential enemy, Russia.
And Russia would have to invade several other countries just to reach Germany.

Even today, the USA is spending near the lower end of our range since WWII -- about 3.4% of GDP, but that is still over 1/3 of total world defense spending.

US troops in Germany today are only about 10% of what they were when I was young, and just 20% of the 12% of US (active) forces stationed outside the USA.

Years ago I read it was actually cheaper to station US forces abroad than in the continental US, can't say if that's still true, but if not yet, it will be... ;-)

[BroJoeK]

"I am American and I don’t get your love/hate thing. According to you, USA loves their abuser."

Hmmmmmmm… "according to me?" -- is that an example of German logic?
Remember, this thread is all about alleged preference of German youth for China over the US:

"Overall, thirty-six percent of Germans want their country to have closer ties with China, as opposed to 37 percent who still prefer the United States.
But the pro-China sentiment was much higher among young Germans."

Now, what precisely those words mean is anybody's guess, but I take it to imply that young Germans feel sentimentally better about China than the USA.
Of course they loved, adored, Barack Obama, apology tours, and helped get him elected.
But a President who wants to "Put Americans First", well, not so much -- after all, in all the world, Germans & Chinese have the most to lose if Americans begin, finally, to balance out our trade accounts.

Indeed, maybe that even explains it -- Germans feel akin to Chinese in that for decades both countries have made their living by destroying American manufacturing jobs.
Now they both stand to suffer as our President works to "Make America Great Again".

Sure... I can "get" that -- maybe young Germans are already looking forward to lower standards of living as Americans begin to eliminate the trade surplus Germans have enjoyed with us since WWII.
Why wouldn't they want to commiserate with fellow-suffering Chinese?

[Berlin_Freeper]

Hmmmmmmm… "according to me?" -- is that an example of German logic?

You are welcome to stew in your animosity for Germans but believe me, logic is not your strong point.

You posted Germany hates its best customer while loving their abuser (LoL!)...
But if Germany "loved" their best customer (like your ill logic insists they should), thereby increasing imports then USA would not be their best customer any longer. So you are simply not making any good sense that is worth specifically pinging people to.

Add to that Germany and the EU have also been challenging China on trade for a long time now.

[Berlin_Freeper]

A little historical perspective...

June 19, 2019 - Germany seeks 'level playing field' in China

The German economy minister has described China as a partner and competitor. He said it is time to establish better trade rules that don't put European companies at a disadvantage.

[BroJoeK]

Berlin Freeper: "You are welcome to stew in your animosity for Germans but believe me, logic is not your strong point."

Nonsense, first because as I read the posts on this thread, I'm the least anti-German poster you'll see here.

Second, logic is said to be a German cultural strong point, but your misuse of it here suggests maybe you didn't learn anything from them, yet.

Berlin Freeper: "But if Germany "loved" their best customer (like your ill logic insists they should), thereby increasing imports then USA would not be their best customer any longer."

So, you define "love" as the ability to abuse your partner?
Obviously you've lived in Germany too long, it's rubbing off on you.

And, did you too miss the class where they explained "fair trade"?
Germany is 6th on the list of countries the US exports to and 5th on the list of countries the US imports from, only one rank difference, but (depending on which source) about $60 billion per year in US trade deficit.
The total German trade surplus is circa $300 billion, largest of any country and of which the US & UK together contribute about 1/3.

Now "fair trade" would insist, not that Germans sell us less, only that they buy more.
Let their import purchases employ as many American workers as their exports destroy US jobs, that's fair.
And indeed, that's exactly what we were promised years ago from trade deals like NAFTA.
They were supposed to "level the playing field", only they didn't.
Back then Ross Perot talked about "the giant sucking sound" of US jobs going down the drain, but his candidacy only helped elect Slick Willie and multiplied the sucking, with China.

So finally, "fair trade" got President Trump elected, and he would argue, I'm sure, that we don't need Germany, China, Mexico & Japan to sell us less, we only need for them to buy more from us.

Berlin Freeper: "So you are simply not making any good sense that is worth specifically pinging people to. "

I see that good sense is not really your strong point.

[Chgogal]

Germans have always chosen poorly.

[BroJoeK]

Berlin_Freeper quoting: "The German economy minister has described China as a partner and competitor.
He said it is time to establish better trade rules that don't put European companies at a disadvantage."

Thus proving conclusively that Germans do indeed understand the concept of "fair trade" and they want fair trade with countries like China.
So how much introspection would it take for them to want fair trade with the United States too?

[Yardstick]

If this article is to be believed, Germany sees itself as aligned with the Chinese against a common economic foe, the United States:

https://www.dw.com/en/trade-worries-put-extra-burden-on-germany-china-talks/a-44586972

“Donald Trump’s trade war threats likely dominated Angela Merkel’s meeting with the Chinese premier. But could rallying around a common economic foe push concerns over human rights and business practices to the side?”

[Berlin_Freeper]

So, you define "love" as the ability to abuse your partner?
Obviously you've lived in Germany too long, it's rubbing off on you.

Again your animosity for Germans is clearly showing, while you are making even less sense.

No wonder you need to ping people to your post. Doubtful anyone is wasting their time listening to your "logic".

[Berlin_Freeper]

Thus proving conclusively that Germans do indeed understand the concept of "fair trade" and they want fair trade with countries like China.

If you want to twist what we were posting about to assuage your self inflicted bruised ego then fine. Germany and the EU have been offering talks on trade with us.

[Berlin_Freeper]

Your quote says “likely” and then asks a question.

Do you have something more concrete since 2018 to get excited about?

[Berlin_Freeper]

And, did you too miss the class where they explained "fair trade"?

Btw, you don’t seem to know what fair trade is.

Unless you are referring to class lesson from 1948? (Entirely possible. Would explain the loose logic and animosity towards Germans.)

[Yardstick]

Here’s a declarative sentence from the article:

“The resulting solidarity between two of the world’s biggest exporting economies superseded all their differences when the two leaders met during the fifth German-Chinese government consultations.”

If Germany has followed Trump’s lead and improved its position on China since 2018, then that’s good.

[Rockingham]

Conventional trade figures are often confounded by harder to track data on ownership, finance, and investment. On the whole, the German public and government see China as more congenial and profitable than the United States and not a threat or rival. I also suspect that German businessmen enjoy China’s looser legal and anti-corruption environment.

[BroJoeK]

Berlin_Freeper: "Again your animosity for Germans is clearly showing, while you are making even less sense."

Now you're sounding more & more like a Democrat.
Next you'll be accusing me of "racism", "sexism" and "basket of deplorables".
All for the purpose of obscuring the fact that (in this case) Germans are racking up a trade surplus of $300 billion per year, ~$60 billion of that from the USA.
And you think that's "fair" because your definition of "fair" is: let's totally abuse our trading partners, right?

Berlin_Freeper: "No wonder you need to ping people to your post.
Doubtful anyone is wasting their time listening to your "logic"."

I pinged you on a hunch that it might generate a response.
Turns out I was right.

[redcatcherb412]

Now now, i’m German born but old with no yen for the chicoms or their virus. These are the ‘young’ according to the header. You know, probably gen-z or millenials. All hormones and short on grey matter.

[BroJoeK]

Berlin_Freeper: "Btw, you don’t seem to know what fair trade is.
Unless you are referring to class lesson from 1948? (Entirely possible.
Would explain the loose logic and animosity towards Germans.)"

You link takes us to a Progressive Democrat definition of "fair trade", naturally.
That's not what President Trump is talking about:

"But I believe in fair trade, and I will tell you, I have many, many friends heading up corporations, and people that do just business in China, they say it's virtually impossible.
It's very, very hard to come into China.
And yet, we welcome them with open arms."
Undated.

"...Hillary Clinton unleashed a trade war against the American worker when she supported one terrible trade deal after another – from NAFTA to China to South Korea,” he said. “A Trump Administration will end that war by getting a fair deal for the American people. The era of economic surrender will finally be over...

"She has it completely backwards.
Hillary Clinton unleashed a trade war against the American worker when she supported one terrible deal after another, from NAFTA, to China to South Korea.
It doesn’t matter.
No matter where she went, the American worker was hurt and you’ll be hurt worse than ever before if she becomes president of the United States.
That, I can tell you.

"A Trump administration will end that war by getting a fair deal for the American people and the American worker.
The era of economic surrender will finally be over.
It will be over.
You’re not going to see it anymore.
Well, I can’t guarantee it, because after me, they’ll probably start doing it again.
But we will have four and maybe eight great, great productive years and we’ll never go back and we’ll make sure we never go back."
June 28, 2016

Trump never mentions Germany even though Germany is among the worst trade abusers.
Trump's bottom line is the US unemployment rate and up until the Coronavirus took over, that was doing better than ever before, fair trade or not.

[BroJoeK]

Rockingham: "Conventional trade figures are often confounded by harder to track data on ownership, finance, and investment."

Sure, I "get" that, but if you say, for example, "Bill Gates owns billions of dollars worth of assets in China," does he really?
Who really owns whom?
In China, the Chinese own you, and if you do a lot of business with them (think basketball) then they own you in your own country too.

Rockingham: "On the whole, the German public and government see China as more congenial and profitable than the United States and not a threat or rival."

Right, just like Walmart, Germans find they can buy good stuff cheap in China, so they source component parts & raw materials where they can save the most money.
And so long as they can maintain their $300 billion global net trade surplus, they don't mind being in the hole maybe $20 billion with China.

But the three countries which contribute most to Germany's trade surplus are the UK, US and France, and I would suppose it to be good foreign policy among Germans not to p*ss off the people who make their easy-life possible.

At some point the facts of life will need to be explained to those German young people.

[BroJoeK]

"Now now, i’m German born but old with no yen for the chicoms or their virus."

Why do we grow so soon old and so late smart?