Survey: Young Germans Prefer China Over The U.S.

Legal Insurrection ^ | May 21, 2020 | Vijeta Uniyal

[CheshireTheCat]

If you believe a new survey, Germans are turning to China in the wake of the Wuhan coronavirus pandemic.

“Germans view the United States less positively since the outbreak of the coronavirus crisis while their attitudes toward China have improved,” the German public broadcaster DW News reported citing the survey. The broadcaster added that “73% stated that their opinion about the United States had deteriorated due to the current health crisis caused by the novel coronavirus,” compared to only 36 percent who looked more unfavorably towards China since the outbreak. “Coronavirus turns Germans more critical of US,” the DW News concluded.

Overall, thirty-six percent of Germans want their country to have closer ties with China, as opposed to 37 percent who still prefer the United States. But the pro-China sentiment was much higher among young Germans.

[Berlin_Freeper]

Now you're sounding more & more like a Democrat.

Next you'll be accusing me of "racism", "sexism" and "basket of deplorables".

Congratulations BroJoeK, you finally managed a post without a nonsensical cheap shot on Germans in regards to your ridiculous "logic of love/hate" trade relations. By this point I didn't believe you could do it. What should people believe here... you or their lying eyes on what you have been constantly posting?

Truth obviously means nothing to you.

All for the purpose of obscuring the fact that (in this case) Germans are racking up a trade surplus of $300 billion per year, ~$60 billion of that from the USA.

And you think that's "fair" because your definition of "fair" is: let's totally abuse our trading partners, right?

Oh now you went all Liberal conspiracy crazy about my motive for pointing out your animosity towards Germans.

Actually I have not defended the Germans on trade. I have posted many times in support of President Trump, that "it's good to periodically toss elbows".

Fact is there needs to be a level playing field with the same rules for everyone. Then you know what? We actually need manufacturing jobs back in America so Germany and everyone else has stuff to buy. But it's easy to mindlessly blame Germans (which you do all day) without having to muster a single clue about what we need to do, you know like.... actually build stuff that people want to buy. It's just plain foolish to demand Germany simply must buy more goods from us.

I pinged you on a hunch that it might generate a response.
Turns out I was right.

I didn't think much of this thread about "young Germans" nor the source. I was pinged to it simply because I have "Berlin" in my name. Some people get their button pushed simply about "Berlin" and then want answers. Usually while they supposition on what I think (looking at you BroJoeK).

[Berlin_Freeper]

Trump never mentions Germany even though Germany is among the worst trade abusers.
Trump's bottom line is the US unemployment rate and up until the Coronavirus took over, that was doing better than ever before, fair trade or not.

I would not say President Trump never mentions Germany. However as far as Germany goes it is obviously time I should inform you that trade deals with Germany must be done through the European Union.

Since you brought up China and "the worst trade abusers", maybe you might like to look up this (I am happy to do it for you):

US President Donald Trump has said he does not blame China for the "unfair" trade relationship between the countries, despite long railing against the economic imbalance.

Speaking in Beijing, he gave China "credit" for working to benefit its citizens by taking advantage of the US.

Since President Trump is not blaming China then he is not blaming Germany either.
Sorry I took your lollipop away. LoL!

[Rockingham]

I get your point, but Germans are rarely if ever receptive to friendly talk from foreigners attempting to explain their errors to them. Experience shows that it usually takes the Germans something like catastrophic military defeat and their country in ruins before they are willing to listen. In the coming years, Muslims may provide that combination of calamities.

[BroJoeK]

Berlin_Freeper: "Congratulations BroJoeK, you finally managed a post without a nonsensical cheap shot on Germans in regards to your ridiculous "logic of love/hate" trade relations."

I see from the rest of your post that you've admitted my position is right: fair trade is better than abusive trade.
But, naturally, you can't just say, "you're right, BroJoeK," instead you have to fill your back-down with a barrage of insults & nonsense, similar to your other posts.

Berlin_Freeper: "Truth obviously means nothing to you. "
...Oh now you went all Liberal conspiracy crazy about my motive for pointing out your animosity towards Germans."

Total nonsense.
My alleged "animosity" is a pure figment of your imagination, typical perhaps of someone who thinks: if you don't worship me, you hate me.
That is mental illness, FRiend.

I have pointed out, and you have agreed, that unfair trade relationships can be abusive, and that the world's greatest practitioners of "beggar thy neighbor" trade practices are Germany and China.

Berlin_Freeper: "But it's easy to mindlessly blame Germans (which you do all day) without having to muster a single clue about what we need to do, you know like.... actually build stuff that people want to buy.
It's just plain foolish to demand Germany simply must buy more goods from us."

Rockingham pointed out here that traditional trade numbers don't always give the most accurate picture of what's really going on.
I agree and so think President Trump's bottom line is not the trade surpluses themselves, but rather the resulting US unemployment rates, which, pre-Covid-19 were the best ever, all without major upsets to traditional trading patterns.

In other words: so long as the US economy is humming along nicely, we are not over-concerned about huge German trade surpluses.

As for US exports, Germany is already our number 6 export receiver, but they are number 5 in US imports and that difference is ~$60 billion, fourth behind China, Mexico & Japan.

Berlin_Freeper: "I didn't think much of this thread about "young Germans" nor the source.
I was pinged to it simply because I have "Berlin" in my name.
Some people get their button pushed simply about "Berlin" and then want answers.
Usually while they supposition on what I think (looking at you BroJoeK)."

Naw, you're just over-fantasizing.
I saw your name on a previous ping and thought, "hmmmm… wonder what Berlin_Freeper has to say about this?"
Turns out, a lot of nonsense about "animosity" towards Germans, but basic agreement on the need to review why, exactly, those trade surpluses are so big.

As for the original article about German youth favoring China over the USA, does anyone really care what skulls full of mush think?

[BroJoeK]

Berlin_Freeper: "Speaking in Beijing, he gave China "credit" for working to benefit its citizens by taking advantage of the US.
Since President Trump is not blaming China then he is not blaming Germany either.
Sorry I took your lollipop away. LoL!"

More nonsense because you misread what Trump is saying.
He is not saying our trade deals involving China, Mexico, Japan & Germany are not abusive, only that the guilty parties are the American negotiators who allowed such deals to be passed, or then not enforced.
He intends to change all that by scrapping multilateral deals in favor of bilateral agreements.

So Trump has a lot of nice things to say about China & Chinese, all of them true, he even says nice things about the North Korean dictator!
But he also didn't hesitate to threaten Kim-boy with "fire and fury" when that was necessary.

Bottom line is that Trump wants good deals, fair deals which keep Americans employed, and I think Germany is on the list, right after some of the others are taken care of.

[BroJoeK]

Rockingham: "I get your point, but Germans are rarely if ever receptive to friendly talk from foreigners attempting to explain their errors to them."

I have no idea what "errors" you mean, my point here has been their trade imbalance, which amounts to ~$60 billion with the US and $300 billion in total per year.
How this relates to German youth feelings toward China, I'm guessing, may be simply that they recognize China as the world's second greatest net-exporter (after Germany), and may feel a certain kinship as against the world's great net-importers, notably the USA, UK & France.

Rockingham: "Experience shows that it usually takes the Germans something like catastrophic military defeat and their country in ruins before they are willing to listen.
In the coming years, Muslims may provide that combination of calamities."

Listen to what, exactly?
Germany has a super-winning economic formula, which provides everything they need & want, why should they change it?
But that formula depends largely on the willingness of the US, UK & France to tolerate massive trade imbalances with Germany.
And our willingness, I think, is based on our abilities to keep our own economies humming along despite the trade imbalances.

As for Muslims, Iirc, there were over a million Turkish "gastarbeiters" when I was stationed there 50 years ago -- that number today is ~4 million Turks plus 1-2 million other Muslims, in a population of 83 million Germans.
Did you ever hear the term "mudsill workers"?
It was used by American intellectuals before the Civil War.
It fairly describes the "gastarbeiters" and, I'd guess, most Muslims in Germany today.
I can't see them becoming a political or economic issue for Germans in the short or medium term.

Long term is anybody's guess.

[Berlin_Freeper]

You are steaming mad because I took your lollipop away.

I see from the rest of your post that you've admitted my position is right: fair trade is better than abusive trade. But, naturally, you can't just say, "you're right, BroJoeK," instead you have to fill your back-down with a barrage of insults & nonsense, similar to your other posts.

This was all I am willing to read from your mental garbage. What I "admitted" was what I have been posting for years. My only original commit was about your illogical "love/hate" silly post that you, for no reason other than feeding your arrogant ego pinged me to and then created your own argument while attributing positions to me that I never had.

It was not only childish but weird that you brought "love/hate" into a thread about trade.
That is all I had to say to you and only since you pinged me.

In short you are a waste of time.
Go ahead and stew on your hate for Germans.
President Trump says China (and Germany) are not to blame. Stew on that too, Trump took all your crazy thunder away. That you spent days on now - LoL!

Rockingham, I don't know you or why you are pinged in a post from a Troll flaming me but run from this mental loser.

[Rockingham]

I see Germany as having four major problems that cannot be resolved or endured without major dislocations. As point five, I conclude with a speculative scenario that suggests just how insecure Germany's position actually is.

(1) Long tern trade imbalances and the accumulation of a massive foreign currency reserve tend to have the unwanted effects of lifting up the value of the home currency the reserve is booked against and suppressing domestic economic activity from what it would otherwise be. Since Germany is on the euro, the result is spread out to the entire eurozone, diminishing its economic performance.

Hardworking Germany, as the EU's moneybag, must then help offset the EU's chronically impaired economic performance by lending to financially stressed Greece, Italy, and Spain, thus helping turn the EU from a currency union into a de facto fiscal transfer union. Naturally, the German public hates this because it means paying for the shambolic and corrupt ways of Greece and other states of the EU southern tier.

This rickety contrivance of recurrent lending by Germany is essential to the EU's political survival. Now, the toll of the coronavirus pandemic may endanger the EU by generating demands for new lending that exceed Germany's willingness to pay.

(2) Like most of the EU and other developed nations, Germany's demographic decline imperils its survival as a nation. The Merkel government compounded the problem by embracing massive Muslim immigration. As the Koran teaches though, immigration by Muslims is a way to speed the conquest of infidel lands and nations. Few Muslim immigrants actually want to assimilate and become Germans.

Surveys and a wide range of practical measures show that jihadism among Germany's Muslims is growing, with little to no pushback within that community. Indeed, funded by cash-rich Qatar, Turkey openly warns of its capacity to stir trouble in Germany whenever it wants.

As Germany's Muslim population grows and the numbers of native Germans decline, a tipping point will approach. Germany will then suffer increased terrorism and will either have to resist through severe measures or install a hybrid state that elevates Islam to official recognition as the dominant state religion. Even this will be but a temporary accommodation as Muslim numbers grow and Germany is pressed to become a full Muslim state under sharia law.

(3) Germany's emerging national security strategy is to replace the US-NATO security architecture with a German-Russian alliance based on a flow of Russian natural gas that provides Germany with energy security and the profit of selling that gas to other European nations. This does nothing to remedy the Muslim issue but will tacitly give Russia a free hand to reassemble its former Soviet empire.

Ukraine, the Baltic states, Norway, Poland, the US, and Britain will not meekly accept this, which raises the potential for another European war. In that event, the natural gas pipelines that Germany expects to rely on as secure will last about three minutes. And, with Germany's army now being swiftly reduced to a notional domestic security force against Muslim terrorism, Germany's economic interests will get little consideration.

Remarkably, Germany may end up having to rely on Poland and the US for military security on her eastern flank. Or, then again, maybe Germany will be able to rely on Merkel's cozy and delusional BFF relationship with Putin as providing an enduring security partnership. At the risk of being thought unkind, I note that the Cold War KGB of Putin's formative years made deep inroads into Germany's government by sending agents to court older German secretaries and bureaucrats in positions of responsibility.

(4) Germany's current favorable economic position depends in large part on preserving the EU and the euro. Both are unlikely though to survive the end of the current decade. As they fall, Germany will lose the favorable economic position it currently enjoys.

The southern tier EU states though will benefit from regaining national currencies and control over their trade. Most of all, they will be able to alleviate their chronic unemployment by a strategy of import substitution that restores the local industries that were wiped out in favor of German industry by the EU and the euro.

(5) Who knows, but one day, as Muslims riot in German cities, an Italian-Greek army may motor to the north, seize Berlin and the Reischbank, take the transferable assets, and cancel Italian and Greek debts to Germany. So much for all the reserves and loan balances that Germany seems to believe provide it with economic and national security.

Graying and prosperous but unrealistic, Germany is like an aging pensioner who has watched his neighborhood decline but thinks he is secure because he has a fat bank balance and a large stock of cash at home, a deadbolt and a chain on the door, and a seeming friendship with the Russian tough who lives down the street.

Yet the rule of nature is that when predators make their move, they do so because their prey is isolated and vulnerable. Economically and diplomatically powerful, Germany's declining military power and security relationships make her a target.

Germans may not like it said to them, but the US, not China, has the willingness and ability to provide Germany with a reliable security guarantee. Unwilling to listen to outsiders, Germans seem inclined to learn this lesson through history's hard discipline of painful events.

[BroJoeK]

Berlin_Freeper: "You are steaming mad because I took your lollipop away."

Now you really are just being a Democrat -- substituting your own emotions for any semblance of reasonable discourse.
In fact you took nothing away, you've just been blasting away with one ridiculous emotional charge after another.

Berlin_Freeper: "My only original commit was about your illogical "love/hate" silly post that you, for no reason other than feeding your arrogant ego pinged me to and then created your own argument while attributing positions to me that I never had. "

Now, typical Democrat, you're just projecting your own arguments & emotions onto me.

Berlin_Freeper: "It was not only childish but weird that you brought "love/hate" into a thread about trade.
That is all I had to say to you and only since you pinged me. "

And yet... and yet, this thread is not about trade, but rather about "love/hate" of German youth for China vs. the USA.
I was simply speculating why Germans would love their Chinese supplier/competitors better than their American customers.
An my comments were very mild compared to others on this thread.
Little did I expect to trigger an insane rage from someone named "Berlin_Freeper".

Berlin_Freeper: "In short you are a waste of time.
Go ahead and stew on your hate for Germans.
President Trump says China (and Germany) are not to blame.
Stew on that too, Trump took all your crazy thunder away.
That you spent days on now - LoL!"

See what I mean?

[Berlin_Freeper]

I confirm receiving the latest ping to your German hating ill thought out 2nd grade arguments and time wasting Trolling idiocy that you started with insults about me having "German logic". With your further rage pings, you can be certain that you are being ignored because unlike you I have better things to do (tip: it is Memorial Day Weekend). Continue referencing this post as needed - ad infinitum. 🍭😘

[Berlin_Freeper]

Btw what is with your stupid horizontal rule?
Never mind. Don't really care, just one more stupid thing.
I'll take it that it's important in the 2nd grade.

[Berlin_Freeper]

And yet... and yet, this thread is not about trade, but rather about "love/hate" of German youth for China vs. the USA. I was simply speculating why Germans would love their Chinese supplier/competitors better than their American customers. An my comments were very mild compared to others on this thread. Little did I expect to trigger an insane rage from someone named "Berlin_Freeper".

Don't waste peoples time pinging them for no other reason than to hear yourself talk. Especially when you fault Germans about their logic while explaining "love/hate trade relations". That was ridiculous. Which is why you quickly walked away from it with only wanting to talk about fair trade. Have you noticed I kept laughing at you about it? Of course you did. Then came your cheap insults about me being German.

Go ahead and rage. We are celebrating Memorial Day Weekend here.

[Berlin_Freeper]

An my comments were very mild compared to others on this thread. Little did I expect to trigger an insane rage from someone named "Berlin_Freeper".

Below you are threatening Germans because of what I thought was animosity, but can only be seen as pure hatred. I told you, stew in your hate for all I care. I just pointed it out.

But the three countries which contribute most to Germany's trade surplus are the UK, US and France, and I would suppose it to be good foreign policy among Germans not to p*ss off the people who make their easy-life possible.

At some point the facts of life will need to be explained to those German young people.
99 posted on 5/23/2020, 11:27:54 PM by BroJoeK ((a little historical perspective...))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 95 | View Replies | Report Abuse]

You are welcome for the bonus replies... was too easy.

[Tolerance Sucks Rocks]

You can’t fix stupid — Ron White, philosopher

[Berlin_Freeper]

I would suppose it to be good foreign policy among Germans not to p*ss off the people

You p*ssed-off, Bro.

[Berlin_Freeper]

[BroJoeK]

Rockingham: "I see Germany as having four major problems that cannot be resolved or endured without major dislocations.
As point five, I conclude with a speculative scenario that suggests just how insecure Germany's position actually is."

Thanks, you've presented us with a highly pessimistic and speculative worst-case scenario, one worthy possibly of Germans themselves (i.e., 1914), but one I don't find particularly convincing.
For one reason, 50 years ago I stood in the Fulda Gap, armed & ready, fully expecting divisions of Russian tanks to come clanking over the border, to which we would respond with everything we had, including nukes.
It never happened, and the lesson I took from it is: if you prepare for the worst, then you might also hope for the best.

Rockingham: "Hardworking Germany, as the EU's moneybag, must then help offset the EU's chronically impaired economic performance by lending to financially stressed Greece, Italy, and Spain, thus helping turn the EU from a currency union into a de facto fiscal transfer union.
Naturally, the German public hates this because it means paying for the shambolic and corrupt ways of Greece and other states of the EU southern tier."

Well, first of all, in my experience, Germans were anything but "hard working".
Americans are seriously hard working, Germans took endless lengthy work-breaks, holidays, paid vacations & sick leave.
So we understand: "hard working" is a relative term and relative to some other countries, no doubt, it's true.
It's also true Germans are highly technical and will use their brains to reduce muscle work whenever possible.

Second, you've now provided the first explanation of why Germany "needs" those hundreds of $billions in trade surpluses each year -- so, like good socialists, they can "spread the wealth" among their "less fortunate" (or more profligate) Southern Euro countries.
It also suggests that if, hypothetically, the US, UK & France were suddenly to insist on buying only as much German production as Germans purchase of ours (to eliminate Germany's trade surplus) the people to suffer most would not necessarily be Germans, but Southern Europeans.

Rockingham: "(2) Like most of the EU and other developed nations, Germany's demographic decline imperils its survival as a nation.
The Merkel government compounded the problem by embracing massive Muslim immigration."

Declining birthrates are a condition of every advanced country, indeed, even in countries with higher birthrates, those rates have drastically declined, so I understand.
I can't foresee where this might lead, long term.
Suppose, for example, that preventing telomere shortening could add years of healthy life?

As for "massive Muslim immigration", I'll repeat, I think there were already 4 million Turks living long-term in Germany even before the latest episode, and that added, what, a million or so?
As to when, if ever, they might become a major problem -- I doubt if Germans (unlike Americans) will ever commit national suicide in the name of "diversity".

Rockingham: "(3) Germany's emerging national security strategy is to replace the US-NATO security architecture with a German-Russian alliance based on a flow of Russian natural gas that provides Germany with energy security and the profit of selling that gas to other European nations."

So consider this: if Germany were the USA and Russia was Canada, a natural gas pipeline between the two countries would cause strategic alarm to nobody, except maybe some wacko-environmentalists.
But the concern here is that Russia is a known bad-actor and would not forever control its gangster impulses to influence other countries by threatening their gas supplies.
President Trump's response has been to offer Europeans our own LNG, but I doubt if we could ever match Russia's low prices.
If we could, that would eliminate Russian leverage and perhaps reduce the need for a strong German-Russian alliance.

Rockingham: "Remarkably, Germany may end up having to rely on Poland and the US for military security on her eastern flank."

Nothing "remarkable" about N.A.T.O., it's been around almost as long as I have.
It's purpose is to defend Western Europe, including now Poland, against military threats such as Russia.
Its problem is that most NATO countries, including Germany, contribute far less than what is considered strategically necessary.
That would change, quickly, if they began to take a potential Russian threat more seriously.

Rockingham: "(4) Germany's current favorable economic position depends in large part on preserving the EU and the euro.
Both are unlikely though to survive the end of the current decade.
As they fall, Germany will lose the favorable economic position it currently enjoys."

Maybe, maybe not -- apparently I give the Germans more credit than you do.
But then, I may not be as close to their situation as you are -- I only know that betting on worst case scenarios has not always worked in the past.

[BroJoeK]

"Don't waste peoples time pinging..."

Your request is granted for Berlin_Freeper.

[Yossarian]

The bastard Wernher von Braun should have been brought over here, allowed to make some advanced rockets for a few years in exchange for us keeping him from facing the justice he so richly deserved. After, say 10 years of this work he should have been offed, either directly by us or by Israel.

Von Braun’s V-2 rockets not only rained indiscriminate death and terror upon the people of Great Britain, they killed more in their home country than in the country they were used against. Manufacturing was done in the Mittelbau-Dora slave labor camp where 20,000 - 1 in 3 - died from illness, beatings, hangings, and intolerable working conditions.

Rockets were so new - and so dependent on *exactly* how they were manufactured - that it is beyond impossible that WvB wasn’t highly aware of he conditions to a point of complicity.

Wernher von Braun’s skills were needed in the Cold War, but his victims deserved justice. The US truly failed when we let him become him become a celebrity, featured on Disney shows, for f’s sake!

[ANKE69]

Hasser, hassen eben....
Hoffe in eurer Ecke ist alles paletti.
Gruß von GA.