Precision Long Range Shooting

Am Shooting Journal ^ | 12/28/2018 | L Vickers

[w1n1]

Larry Vicker and Walt Wilkinson of Gunsite were pushing the range limits on the Lapua 338.
Larry was using a 338 Lapua/250 grain bullet with Schmidt&Bender scope, Atlas bipod and with a Armament suppressor.
A fact that most long range shooter understands when shooting out to beyond 1000 yards the bullet starts to drop like a rainbow. Thats due to (getting a little technical here) the environmental factors of temperature and barometric pressure. So to overcome this is to run the math in a ballistic app.
That's the reason why they say a grouping at 1500 yards should be at fifteen inches group, where at closer range your groupings could be at 5 inches.

The un-suppressed rifle starts out at 300 yards for zeroing and pushes out to 2500 and outer space to see where the rounds go. For the 338 Lapua with the 20 inch barrel the drop off point was at 1470 yard. The bullet is tumbling, yawing, spinning out of control and would land in a group size of a Volkswagen.

From here its back to the 1313 yards where the gun was in the zone with a suppressor attached. Suppressed Lapua had no problem hitting steel targets at 1313 and 1470 yards, but lost it at 1583 yards. Read and see more of precision shooting.

[yarddog]

From a rest using a high quality rifle, it is easy to hit a man sized target at 400 yards. That also means having the sights adjusted correctly.

Same goes for an accurate handgun and beer cans at 100 yards.

Past 400 yards and not knowing exact distances etc., I am not accurate at all.

[Travis McGee]

I sailed from San Diego to Panama with the guy that makes the Atlas bipod used in the shoot.

[Travis McGee]

Being able to dominate out to 400 might come in handy in any future civil festivities. A lot better than hand to hand at machete range.

[yarddog]

Around 1976, I had a local dealer order one of the new, still unfired model 98-09 Argentine Mausers. Mine was test fired by Herr Ritzmann @ 200 meters and the guy had shot a 2 inch group.

The group was about two inches above point of aim and dead on. Herr Ritzmann then signed the target which stayed with the rifle until I got it.

It was one of the early ones, actually made in 1909 by Deutsch, Waffen und Munitions Fabriken, Berlin. Usually just called “DWM”. It was simply the most perfectly made rifle I have ever seen.

I also ordered 1000 rounds of 7.65 Argentine made by FN and all headstamped 1933 and 1934.

My Nephew and I took it out to an abandoned clay pit. On the far side around a quarter mile away was an old half full tar bucket.

I was a bit surprised how easy it was to hit it. They sights must have been dead on at that distance. Actually I had read that they were usually sighted in for 400 meters. Even my Nephew who was not an experienced shooter, had no trouble hitting it.

[Bulwyf]

That’s great, I have a few. They’re not cheap though which is a put off for some people. Off my south deck I can get up to 2750 yards, but I’ve only pushed my 6.5s to a mile. I’ll build a 300 PRC or a Norma and take it to 2500. I also use Schmidt and bender, it’s great glass. The other weekend I took out a moving coyote at 1000 yards, it’s good practise.

I did this stuff in the Patricia’s as well obviously, and the rest I won’t say on a public forum heh.

[OKSooner]

Testimony that effective practical shooting need not be a function of thousands of dollars spent on the latest and greatest and trendiest of blingy rich person gear seen mostly on the internet.

[Mariner]

“Thats due to (getting a little technical here) the environmental factors of temperature and barometric pressure.”

Utter and complete nonsense.

Bullets “drop like a rainbow” do to lost velocity, which the above factors have minuscule affect on.

The author doesn’t know what he is talking about.

[real saxophonist]

The author doesn’t know what he is talking about.

In other words, about average for 'Am Shooting Journal'.

[DungeonMaster]

Utter and complete nonsense.

Bullets “drop like a rainbow” do to lost velocity, which the above factors have minuscule affect on.

The author doesn’t know what he is talking about.

That's for sure. It is simple distance equals 1/2 acceleration times time squared. How ever much a bullet drops in one second it will fall 4 times that much in 2 seconds. Add to that the fact that it is slowing down so it is covering less distance in that second second.

[RedStateRocker]

Somebody needs an editor. That’s some pretty poor English. Decent information, though.

[Mariner]

A bullet always drops 6 feet in the same amount of time.

The only question is how far it traveled in that same amount of time.

[Manly Warrior]

Well, er, sort of...

Bullets spin well, but they loose velocity rather quickly, even real slippery Very Low Drag types. A 338 250 grain bullet is rather light for the task they were performing, kind of like using a 168 BTHP in a 308 and trying to get past 1000 yds.

In a nutshell, what happens is as the bullet slows, the center of pressure ( air pressure created by the bullet moving forward) begins to move forward and the change affects the bullets “yaw of repose” or kind of like angle of attack for an airplane wing. Then the bullet begins to wobble more and more until at a certain velocity for those atmospheric conditions ( air density-combined air pressure, temp and relative humidity). The wobble becomes more and more detrimental to continued forward motion and accuracy until the spin stabilizing effect is overcome and the bullet then tumbles and literally falls to the ground, if you will. Like a wing in a stall condition...

This happens with almost all bullet deigns at some point in free trajectory.

Some bullets tolerate the velocity decay better than others, and atmospheric conditions indeed are part of the equation.

Most bullets never make in free trajectory to those extreme ranges, they hit something first.

The 338 L would do better if a 300 or even heavier/longer/more ballistically efficient bullet were used.

This tendency occurs in what is called the transonic zone- a super sonic bullet slowing into the 1.3 to .8 Mach range (see, that is determined by atmospherics) has to stay stable through this “barrier” IOT to continue on to greater range accurately, while raveling at sub sonic velocity thereafter.

So, yes indeed, atmospherics and bullet deign can actually cause a super sonic bullet to “fall” out of the sky....

If they shot a 300 grain VLD, the ranges would probably be seen as a few hundred yards longer before they too encountered this phenomenon.

[central_va]

Long range shooting

[DungeonMaster]

A bullet always drops 6 feet in the same amount of time. The only question is how far it traveled in that same amount of time.

And if you double flight time it will drop 24 feet. Not because of the reasons cited by the author.

[familyop]

400 yards is pretty good, really. Was that with a scope or iron sights?

[yarddog]

That was with a totally original condition rifle. Nothing added at all. Also using nearly 50 year old surplus fmj ammo.

That German who shot the test target must have been something else.

[G Larry]

Cataract isn't bad enough to operate, but it does affect target clarity.

So, I keep it inside 300 yds.

[yarddog]

I had cataract surgery in both eyes. Nothing to it really.

I could not believe how bright and clear everything was afterward. Mine went from whatever to 20-15 in both eyes. The girl said I might even be better than that as that was as low as the machine would go and I read that row easily.

[spokeshave2]

Cataract isn't bad enough to operate, but it does affect target clarity.

I got rid of a beginning cataract with medicinal quality castor oil drops...one drop every other day for a couple of monts

good enough to pass DMV vision test.