Posted on 03/23/2018 5:57:54 AM PDT by w1n1
The .22 Short was developed back in 1857 for Smith & Wesson revolver.
Created for the metallic cartridge with a 29-30 grain bullet, pushed by 4 grains of black powder.
This was mainly developed for self-defense, nowadays this cartridge has little penetration and knockdown power.
So how low in caliber should one go before your personal defense firearm is too light?
Youtuber mark3smle did some ballistic gelatin test with this .22 Short.
Overall the .22 penetrated 4 inches through a pair of pants into the gelatin. mark3smle goes onto comparing a knife penetration could do the job as well. Theres going to be different views on this.
A knife fighter with training would probably boast his skillset as superior at close range.
However, with a .22 Short you can still tactically use it without the bad guy knowing it until its too late. What do you all think?, Would you go with a .22 Shorty for self-defense? See the full 22 Shorty or knife review here.
Here's what some are saying on social media:
“If carrying a mouse gun comforts you, do so. But do not fire it, for you may strike someone, and give them reason to cause you great harm.” - Jeff Cooper
A can of mace would be better than either.
More range and stopping power
Why not carry both?
Knife always...
I’ve witnessed many training sessions with 2 cops w/guns and the knife expert always takes them both down. Throat cut/leg artery opened...they’re dead.
The laughing joke around here is don’t bring a knife to a gun fight - laugh all you want. These guys were 20 feet away from each other too when the whistle starts.
why not both?
” These guys were 20 feet away from each other too when the whistle starts.”
Tueller drill.
how does a guy with a knife take down two cops with a gun 20 feet away?
details please
You seem to be implying that a knife is better to have than a gun.
So you’ve seen this too?
First time I witnessed it I was floored. It’s almost 100% effective each time.
How fast do you think it takes a guy to run/sprint 20 feet and strike two people?
Remember - these cops are standing and guns still holstered.
Most never even can get the gun unholstered by the time it’s over.
It’s the 21-foot rule: A man with a knife can get to a man with a gun faster than the man with the gun can pull out his weapon and fire.
Given the accuracy of the average police officer in hitting a target under stress (numerous reports and statistics) vs a highly trained knife fighter, I can see the knife winning.
However the average Joe with a knife vs a man with a gun, how many stories do you see where a grandma grabs a pistol and blows a bad guy without a gun away? Fairly common.
I carry a .380 and it is not very accurate beyond 10’. However most confrontations are at 10’ or less. While I can hit the center of a target at rifle distances with my .357, I am not going to be defending myself from an assault by knife at that distance. And if some nutcase is charging me at that range,I will have plenty of time to shoot him.
As to the .22 short pistol, you put several into someone, a 22 should work just fine.
If packing this gun is about concealment and weight and an individual is set on 22 caliber why not the 22LR? I believe this handgun is also made in 22LR.
My favorite take on that drill. From Jusitified. It's number 6 in the list.
If you want to test a .22 short for penetration, use the regular Remington Golden Bullet HV. It was shocked at how deeply it penetrates compared to other brands. It shot right through a hard rough-sawn 2X4 and buried out of sight into the oak tree it was leaning against. Hollow points went 1/2-3/4 way through the 2X4, as did other brands of solids. The Remington solid’s lead is very hard compared to other brands. I used a Beretta Minx and the target was about 10 feet away.
Ummm....NO!
If I were presented with a circumstance in which all I had available was a .22...then I would use it as well as it could be used...as in one to the eye and one in the ear...or the whole dump into center mass...whatever would work best.
But anyone that goes out and actively seeks a .22 of any type to carry as a personal defense weapon, in lieu of something more powerful, as opposed to using it to accompany something more powerful, is woefully and mindnumbingly naive...possibly ignorant beyond redemption.
The absolute smallest caliber I will carry in a hand gun for anything other than recreational use or crow-killing is .380...and that will be the hottest load I can find.
I have three carry handguns...a .380 Bersa Thunder, a .380 Walther PPK and a Colt Defender .45.
I always have at least one of them on me...sometimes all three, depending on the weather and where I may be going.
As far as blades...I carry a Benchmade Griptilian with a Tanto blade for extreme need to cut flesh.
It is sharper than a razor and simply looking at the edge will result in a cut somewhere on your body and it is the only one with which I would think to defend myself with, if I had to.
I also carry a Freek, a Case Stockman and a Remington bird knife, the bird knife more out of habit from my days of upland game hunting, the Choke Wrench and Gut Hook being the most used "blades" on that knife.
But for anyone that has never been in a so-called knife fight...I say that the percentage of intelligent human beings that are able to purposefully take a knife and cut another human being...with malice intended and aforethought, is very small.
I personally do NOT bring knives to gun fights...for that matter, I don't bring guns to any fight...I just happen to have one or more on my person if there IS a fight and so should you, but a sensible one, not a pop gun that would probably result in you getting your ass kicked or worse.
So, unless the magic fairy simply makes a .22 appear in your hand at the time you are being robbed, mauled, raped, robbed, whatever...do not be so stupid as think a .22 will give you a tactical advantage over a REAL gun, just because it is smaller, lighter and easier to hide.
The Science of Ballistics is full of truths...I have never found a lie amongst the Laws of Physics, either.
The short is OK in the right gun such as the Beretta Minx. I have owned a couple of the NA Arms mini revolvers and they are just too difficult to handle.
I have read that in a knife fight, you can count on being cut. Even the very best, get cut. William Fairbairne, who was head of the Shanghai Riot Police for many years, was covered with scars from knife fights.
Many consider him the greatest fighter ever.
That’s why you always keep something between you and anyone you are suspicious of. A car, a telephone pole, even a trash can - something to block or slow the dude down if he lunges, while you pull your gun.
Those derringer things have the most head-scratchingly tough triggers. I don’t get it. There is no way that these can fulfill the premise that the firearm is the great equalizer.
A knife should be carried at all times by all men. But not for cutting other men. If you pull a knife and you aren’t trained (trained WELL) on how to use it you’ll be pulling it from your own neck in about 2 seconds.
But if you can conceal a .22 you can conceal a .380. And if you get the right .380 you’re talking about the same kind of defense capability as a 9mm at closer range.
The smaller caliber guns are “better than nothing” but with a little work you can carry something larger.
A very smart man.
Abrasive as 20 grit sandpaper and as direct and in your face as any man can be...but inspirational as hell.
He is one of several men (and he was a Marine!) that have inspired me in not only my military career, but also my professional and recreational shooting successes.
He is missed, but his writings and observations have taken on a life of their own.
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