Mark Levin may get his evil wish to convene a Constitutional Convention

SEE: Did Michigan just trigger 'constitutional convention'? Bid gains steam

In the wake of the vote, California Republican Rep. Duncan Hunter pressed House Speaker John Boehner on Tuesday to determine whether the states just crossed the threshold for this kind of convention. Like Michigan lawmakers, Hunter's interest in the matter stems from a desire to push a balanced-budget amendment -- something that could potentially be done at a constitutional convention.

If Duncan Hunter wants to balance the annual budget, then why does he not “push” for and demand the apportioned direct tax which is in our Constitution be used to extinguish annual deficits as our Founding Fathers intended?

The liars are at it again, pretending their objectives are noble, but their ultimate aim is to convene a convention so those who now hold power at the federal and state level may rewrite our Constitution and make constitutional that which is now unconstitutional.

How is the budget to be balanced? The answer is found in a number of our State Ratification documents which gave birth to our Constitution, for example see: Ratification of the Constitution by the State of New Hampshire

Fourthly That Congress do not lay direct Taxes but when the money arising from Impost, Excise and their other resources are insufficient for the Publick Exigencies; nor then, untill Congress shall have first made a Requisition upon the States, to Assess, Levy, & pay their respective proportions, of such requisitions agreeably to the Census fixed in the said Constitution in such way & manner as the Legislature of the State shall think best and in such Case if any State shall neglect, then Congress may Assess & Levy such States proportion together with the Interest thereon at the rate of six per Cent per Annum from the Time of payment prescribed in such requisition-

For an example of a direct tax being laid by Congress see an Act laying a direct tax for $3 million in which the rule of apportionment is applied and each State’s share is determined.

Did you ever hear Mark Levin inform his listening audience that our founders put the emergency apportioned direct taxing power in the Constitution to be used when imposts, duties, and excise taxes were found insufficient to meet Congress expenditures ? I haven’t. But Mark Levin wants a convention so he can promote his socialist flat tax which he now does with one of his “liberty amendments”.

A flat tax calculated from incomes, even if “flat”, does absolutely nothing to remove the iron fist of our federal government from the necks of America’s hard working productive citizens and business owners.

Hey Mark, does your flat tax end our despotic federal government from arbitrarily deciding what is and what is not taxable income? No! Does your socialist tax on profits gains and other “incomes” end our Washington Establishment’s use of taxation to intentionally seek out America’s productive hard working citizens and transfer the bread they have earned to a dependent voting block who prostitutes their vote for free government cheese? No! Tell us Mark Levin, how about the devastating and slavish manipulations carried out under this socialist tax calculated from incomes? Does your flat tax end that and class warfare? No! Or, would your flat tax end taxation being used as a political weapon to silence, threaten and punish political foes while rewarding the friends of a tyrannical bloated federal government? Heck No! So why are you comfortable with a flat tax which in turn is a component part of a despotic federal government? I know why….you are part of the Washington Establishment which works to defeat the miracle our founding fathers created.

If you were really sincere about supporting our founding fathers Mark, you would be promoting a return to our Constitutions ORIGINAL TAX PLAN as our founders intended it to operate with the following H.J.RESOLUTION:

House/Senate Joint Resolution

Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the United States to repeal the sixteenth article of amendment and end taxes calculated from profits, gains, salaries and other “incomes”.

Section 1: The sixteenth article of amendment to the Constitution of the United States is hereby repealed.

Section 2: Congress is henceforth forbidden to lay ``any`` tax or burden calculated from profits, gains, interest, salaries, wages, tips, inheritances or any other lawfully realized money.

Section 3: This article shall be inoperative unless it shall have been ratified as an amendment to the Constitution by three fourths of the several States, as provided in the Constitution, within seven years from the date of the submission thereof to the States by the Congress.

JWK

" I believe that there are more instances of the abridgement of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachment of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." ___ Madison Elliot`s Debates, vol. III, page 87

The only effective course of action for the short term is 1. remove children from government schools, 2. cut the cable/satellite, but keep your broadband, and 3. elect Constitutional conservatives to city and county governments, and especially to the positions that control the guns and courts. This is something that can actually be done, unlike fanciful plans for fixing DC. Nothing is going to stop the coming civil unrest because there is no prospect at all of doing what needs to be done on spending, etc. at the national level. SS and Medicare/Medicaid alone will consume the budget and cause a collapse of the dollar. People would be far better off starting locally to get control and then moving higher into state government than pursuing Levin’s idea.When the unrest comes, controlling local and state governments will be paramount.

Respectfully, let's examine your points (which are all great ideas, btw).

1. remove children from government schools,

Many states are trying at the local levels. But Carter started the Education Department and took some control. Then all the presidents that followed took more control. Then Bush started No Child Left behind and now they are pushing Common Core. The states are starting Charter Schools, voucher systems, etc. to give their citizens a way out. But states took from the Garden of Eden when they became dependent on the Fed for Education Funding. To accomplish your goal we need to get rid of all teacher's (actually government) unions and abolish the Department of Education. A Convention of States seems easier.

2. cut the cable/satellite, but keep your broadband

I would hate to think that we would limit freedom in this way "for the good of the nation". It sounds a bit tyrannical.

3. elect Constitutional conservatives to city and county governments, and especially to the positions that control the guns and courts.

This is happening now. Look at Wisconsin and Michigan. Many states are becoming "redder" (more red?). BUT, as liberals flee their own carnage for places like Nevada, Arizona and Texas, their virus is also spreading and turning red areas purple. The entire idea behind the Convention of States is to take control back from the Fed at the state and local levels. (I don't understand the "positions that controls guns and courts" part, however).

Nothing is going to stop the coming civil unrest because there is no prospect at all of doing what needs to be done on spending, etc. at the national level.

The proposed amendments are to correct this, driven by the states. The civil unrest you speak of assumes that the fed must some day quit sending checks. FRiend, that is so far off that you and I will both be long dead. We can milk this cow and print money for many decades to come as we continue down this long slow fall. But by then, we will have cultivated a generation that is apathetic and unwilling or at least unaware of their plight. This is what has happened in Europe. The ME can't be driven to freedom for the same reason. The slaves (peasants) don't know any better and have no aspirations for individual liberty and freedom. We may be the last of a dying breed already.

Here’s something quite a few freepers have yet to get their heads:

Mark Levin is not God and not everything he says is infalliable wisdom on how to save our Republic.
Mark Levin is not God and not everything he says is infalliable wisdom on how to save our Republic.
Mark Levin is not God and not everything he says is infalliable wisdom on how to save our Republic.
Mark Levin is not God and not everything he says is infalliable wisdom on how to save our Republic.
Mark Levin is not God and not everything he says is infalliable wisdom on how to save our Republic.
Mark Levin is not God and not everything he says is infalliable wisdom on how to save our Republic.
Mark Levin is not God and not everything he says is infalliable wisdom on how to save our Republic.
Mark Levin is not God and not everything he says is infalliable wisdom on how to save our Republic.
Mark Levin is not God and not everything he says is infalliable wisdom on how to save our Republic.
Mark Levin is not God and not everything he says is infalliable wisdom on how to save our Republic.
Mark Levin is not God and not everything he says is infalliable wisdom on how to save our Republic.
Mark Levin is not God and not everything he says is infalliable wisdom on how to save our Republic.
Mark Levin is not God and not everything he says is infalliable wisdom on how to save our Republic.
Mark Levin is not God and not everything he says is infalliable wisdom on how to save our Republic.
Mark Levin is not God and not everything he says is infalliable wisdom on how to save our Republic.
Mark Levin is not God and not everything he says is infalliable wisdom on how to save our Republic.
Mark Levin is not God and not everything he says is infalliable wisdom on how to save our Republic.
Mark Levin is not God and not everything he says is infalliable wisdom on how to save our Republic.

Comprende?

RE: Post #49

Your points and concerns are not without merit. I cannot refute that any process or cause led by government is not corruptible. Hell, our founders repeatedly stated this. They established this nation with an absolutely clear message that it will only last if the citizenry remains engaged in their own governance. And this is where we have failed as a nation over the last... probably hundred years, but certainly the past 50.

So now what? I am trying to remain positive that somehow the citizenry will re-engage, educate themselves and jump out of the boiling pot. Otherwise we are through as a nation and our exceptionalism is in its twilight. In this case, we are doomed as a nation of individual liberty and freedom. Only violent rebellion to destroy our nation and re-build it will be the solution. I doubt that will ever happen. We will become Europe. We are getting closer, faster now more than ever.

Career politicians that have no need or concerns for the future beyond the next election do not govern in the best interest of future generations. These days, people go to college to become a politician. This is the first step to try and right this country, in my opinion. The the authoritarians that we keep electing are not going to restrict themselves.

Some relevant info...

FairTax--once we switch to it to replace the income tax system--would not only be the biggest boon the economy in over 100 years, but it would be the biggest return of power to all legal residents of the USA since the American Revolution.

It would cut yearly tax compliance costs as much as 95 percent (instead of spending soon US$500 BILLION per year in tax compliance, we now have US$475 billion per year now freed up for more productive activities), and would eliminate 50% of the lobbyists in Washington, DC (and all the corruption that goes with it!). The DJIA would zoom past 25,000 in a matter of a few years because we eliminated capital gains and stock dividend taxation. And that only scratches the surface of the positive effects on the US economy.

More here.

Once a convention is convened it will do what it pleases, just like the Convention of 1787 ignored they were sent there for the “sole and express purpose of revising the Articles of Confederation“ and we wound up with an entirely new Constitution and a new government, not a simple revision!

See: Credentials of the Members of the Federal Convention. Commonwealth of Massachusetts; April 9, 1787

(Seal appendt). By His Excellency James Bowdoin Esquire Governor of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts.

To the Honorable Francis Dana, Elbridge Gerry, Nathaniel Gorham, Rufus King and Caleb Strong Esquires. Greeting.

Whereas Congress did on the twenty first day of February Ao Di 1787, Resolve "that in the opinion of Congress it is expedient that on the second Monday in May next a Convention of Delegates who shall have been appointed by the several States to be held at Philadelphia for the sole and express purpose of revising the Articles of Confederation and reporting to Congress and the several Legislatures, such alterations and provisions therein as shall when agreed to in Congress, and confirmed by the States render the federal Constitution adequate to the exigencies of government and the preservation of the Union." And Whereas the General Court have constituted and appointed you their Delegates to attend and represent this Commonwealth in the said proposed Convention; and have by Resolution of theirs of the tenth of March last, requested me to Commission you for that purpose.

Now therefore Know Ye, that in pursuance of the resolutions aforesaid, I do by these presents, commission you the said Francis Dana, Elbridge Gerry Nathaniel Gorham, Rufus King & Caleb Strong Esquires or any three of you to meet such Delegates as may be appointed by the other or any of the other States in the Union to meet in Convention at Philadelphia at the time and for the purposes aforesaid.

In Testimony whereof I have caused the Public Seal of the Commonwealth aforesaid to be hereunto affixed.

Given at the Council Chamber in Boston the Ninth day of April Ao Dom. 1787 and in the Eleventh Year of the Independence of the United States of America.

JAMES BOWDOIN
By His Excellency's Command.
JOHN AVERY JUNr., Secretary
_________

These same words appear in almost every State's call for the Convention of 1787, and we wound up with a entirely new Constitution, not a simple revision. Mark Levin, by his very own words, is proposing to utilize the second process outlined in article V, which is exactly what took place in1787 and was the calling of a “convention” for the sole and express purpose of revising the Articles of Confederation, but culminated in the ratification of an entirely new Constitution, a new federal government, a number of powers being ceded to the new Government, and, the new government assuming State debts incurred during the Revolutionary War.

JWK

FairTax--once we switch to it to replace the income tax system--would not only be the biggest boon the economy in over 100 years, but it would be the biggest return of power to all legal residents of the USA since the American Revolution.

I am an avid proponent. But we shouldn't pretend it is uncorruptible or that it does not come with some complications (as any tax system will). I have some unanswered questions about implementation, the switch over, if you will. Also, there are some legitimate questions about those spending their retirement. In the best case scenario, a % of people will get hit hard unless specific tax exempt individuals can be somehow identified (Solidly in retirement for instance).

I have researched this topic! All you need to know is the 18th and 21st Amendment. We prohibited the sale of alcohol and then repealed the Amendment. Are you so sure that if brought up today, the Second Amendment would survive unscathed? If you look at the popularity of the First Amendment, we couldn't even read the Bible in public due to hate speech laws. We have a 4th Amendment now and let me just say,..."NSA". I mean, if you open a convention like you and Levin,( And believe me, I practically worship the guy), there will be NO phrase untouched by the idiot moron fascists now in power. I challenge you to even find a modern law that is throttled back by Constitutional principle. There is a list of permitted actions the Feds can take and a list of forbidden actions the Feds can do, but they are constantly doing whatever the hell they want, ObamaCare being the latest. Where does it say they can force my company to drop my insurance I bargained for and substitute an inferior product for a higher price? If Texas tried to force that, they would get crucified, but since we have Ca, Ma, NY, Co and others, I'm forced into a sort of slavery and charged a fine if I don't. The SCOTUS and all below found it permitted some how. My biggest fear is #2 would be modified or done away with. That is the Amendment that protects the other 9.

To allow people today to have this much power is the same as giving a 4 year old a hair trigger .45 Colt and expecting nothing bad to happen.

The idea is an interesting one and has been discussed for much of my 62 years of life, but to expect a good outcome is just naive, IMO.

If limits were put into the legislation to ONLY discuss one topic and if things were added to modify something expressly spoken about in the existing Constitution, I think you would be astounded at how other topics would be injected. I'm not saying it should NEVER be allowed because that is the provided mechanism we have, But the level of morals and education we have today almost insures a tragedy.

Much of my fear comes from knowing the difference between a democracy and a republic. We passed just laws and live by those laws in a republic. A democracy is just mob rule. Go back and watch some file film of the "Occupy" movement and tell me you want their opinion on even what time of day it is. As an example, sodomy has been illegal everywhere for thousands of years. Anyone accepting sodomy has been destroyed and erased. Today, over 60% want acceptance of sodomy and are willing to put you into reeducation camps as they crow about their tolerance. I'm absolutely sure sodomy would be ensconced into law as a protected species if the opportunity arises. As it sits now, we could vote out the sodomites if we chose to. If it were in law, there would be no chance and YOU would end up as a law breaker instead of a good citizen.

Study the proposed legislation before it passes and you find out what's in it!

Linder first introduced the Fair Tax Act (H.R. 2525) on July 14, 1999 to the 106th United States Congress and a substantially similar bill has been reintroduced in each subsequent session of Congress.

H.R.25 Latest Title: Fair Tax Act of 2013 Sponsor: Rep Woodall, Rob [GA-7] (introduced 1/3/2013) Cosponsors (74) Latest Major Action: 1/3/2013 Referred to House committee. Status: Referred to the House Committee on Ways and Means.

SUMMARY AS OF: 1/3/2013--Introduced.

Fair Tax Act of 2013 - Repeals the income tax, employment tax, and estate and gift tax. Redesignates the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 as the Internal Revenue Code of 2013.

Imposes a national sales tax on the use or consumption in the United States of taxable property or services. Sets the sales tax rate at 23% in 2015, with adjustments to the rate in subsequent years. Allows exemptions from the tax for property or services purchased for business, export, or investment purposes, and for state government functions.

Sets forth rules relating to: (1) the collection and remittance of the sales tax, and (2) credits and refunds. Allows a monthly sales tax rebate for families meeting certain size and income requirements.

Grants states the primary authority for the collection of sales tax revenues and the remittance of such revenues to the Treasury. Sets forth administrative provisions relating to: (1) the filing of monthly reports and payments of tax; (2) accounting methods; (3) registration of sellers of goods and services responsible for reporting sales; (4) penalties for noncompliance; and (5) collections, appeals, and taxpayer rights.

Directs the Secretary of the Treasury to allocate sales tax revenues among: (1) the general revenue, (2) the old-age and survivors insurance trust fund, (3) the disability insurance trust fund, (4) the hospital insurance trust fund, and (5) the federal supplementary medical insurance trust fund.

Prohibits the funding of the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) after FY2017. Establishes in the Department of the Treasury: (1) an Excise Tax Bureau to administer excise taxes not administered by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF); and (2) a Sales Tax Bureau to administer the national sales tax.

Terminates the sales tax imposed by this Act if the Sixteenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution (authorizing an income tax) is not repealed within seven years after the enactment of this Act.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d113:h.r.25:

John, I grow weary of your ignorance on this and other issues. I really try not to insult FReepers and remain respectful to all. But.... sometimes I find myself on the verge of failure in this endeavor. I'll at least stop short of name calling.

We could start by having people think for themselves and challenge what they see and hear, instead of letting a radio talk show host do their thinking for them.

I can guarantee you that arguments like “I’m for Liz Cheney because Mark Levin told me she’s the true conservative in the race” aren’t going to “Save our Republic”. If anything, that kind of blind loyalty has making things worse by saddling our side with a bunch of embarrassments. We were set back in 2012 and 2010 by supporting crappy candidates that self-proclaimed “conservative leaders” convinced the grassroots to “get behind”.

Conservatives who blindly worship whatever Levin says are as bad as Obama zombies on the left. This country will never be “saved” as long as we have a bunch of mindless sheep who blindly obey on the left AND right. I already have a messiah and he’s not on talk radio.

Another thing, The link posted speaks of a “Constitutional Convention”, but the discussion seem to be about taxes. We could pass laws to balance the budget without passing a Constitutional Convention. That is where my fear comes from. In a Convention, there is NO subject off limits. We could just repeal the 16th Amendment and do it some other way without an amendment as we did for a hundred years. A tax law is always tough because we can’t be constrained during times of war. It would be very difficult to write an Amendment to collect taxes ONLY ONE WAY. If we got a flat tax or a sales tax, you can bet the first year there would be a VAT, carbon, energy, or some other form of taxation to get what they want.IMO, a convention for a tax amendment would be a bunch of sound and fury to accomplish very little, and also IMHO, would open up discussion for all sorts of other “good ideas”.

Tenacious 1,

I share your feelings expressed in Post # 126. Let me point out I have been at this for over 35 years! My major contribution in the fight to restore our constitutionally limited system of government was “Prosperity Restored by the State Rate Tax Plan” which I co-authored with Ed Ellison who has since passed away.

Most of the sufferings we experience today can be linked to a corruptible system of taxation and a corruptible money system, both of which invite predators to flock to Washington to manipulate each in a manner which steals the real material wealth created by America’s hard working citizens and business owners.

Our founding fathers suffered the miseries of dishonest money and dishonest taxation, and they provide a remedy for each. If America’s honor and greatness is to be restored, it will only happen if and when the people themselves rise up and take back their government, and what could be a more motivating force than a proposal put on the table to return to our Constitution’s ORIGINAL TAX PLAN, as it was intended to operate by our Founders?

Now Just imagine if Mark Levin and other “conservative” talk show hosts [Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Glenn Beck, Laura Ingraham, Schnitt, Dennis Prager, Bill O'rielly, Mike Gallagher, Doc Thompson, Lee Rodgers, Neal Boortz, Mike Huckabee, Tammy Bruce, Monica Crowley, Herman Cain, etc.] got behind and promoted the following:

House/Senate Joint Resolution

Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the United States to repeal the sixteenth article of amendment and end taxes calculated from profits, gains, salaries and other “incomes”.

Section 1: The sixteenth article of amendment to the Constitution of the United States is hereby repealed.

Section 2: Congress is henceforth forbidden to lay ``any`` tax or burden calculated from profits, gains, interest, salaries, wages, tips, inheritances or any other lawfully realized money.

Section 3: This article shall be inoperative unless it shall have been ratified as an amendment to the Constitution by three fourths of the several States, as provided in the Constitution, within seven years from the date of the submission thereof to the States by the Congress.

And imagine further if Mark Levin then called for a 2 million man march on Washington to demand Congress send to the states for ratification the above H.J.RES.

I think there would be no problem gathering 2 million patriots to join in such a demonstration, and that is why I believe our so called “conservative” media personalities will not promote what I suggest above.

Regards,

JWK

We are here today and gone tomorrow, but what is most important is what we do in between, and is what our children will inherit and remember us by.

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.